Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[shade2]

Well you make deal with the devil when you have no other option. Do we have options ? Maybe, maybe not. But definitely not in the next 10 years.



You mean a runt state opposing a military superpower and stalling the war in a grinding halt ? I will take it anyday. That beats complete annexation, and the horrors that comes with that.

Power difference vs. China is much less than what is between Ukraine vs. Russia.







India is one of the most important emerging powers. To which superpower we align (USA vs. China) in the next 50 years will define which side will have hengemony for the next 100 years.



We are not a nail but a fucking pole. China will find they need more resources and willpower to bend us down. Question is will that be even worth it at the end.

We can stall the war by ourselves, no need to sell to Uncle Sam, mainly because of the Himalyas
We sell our soul to Uncle Sam so we can defeat the Chings, because they will """""""win""""""" in a war of attrition because of their superior industrial capacity

That's what Russia thought as well.

US didn't directly intervene in Ukraine my dude, the killing and dying is being done by the Ukranians themselves for the most part
Even in terms of supplies it is half assed, because Ukraine is a rusty pipe used to beat Russia with, if the pipe breaks and shatters, Uncle Sam gives not a fuck.

Taiwan is a small island with a small population, it will fold in months without foreign intervention, Chings know this and that's why have been bulking up for the past 20 years

 

[Blademaster]

Misc,

You mistake my post as if I was saying India was a runt like Ukraine. No I am not. But remember Russia is not China and China is not Russia. China has far more resources than Russia.

And Ukraine has a more strategic importance to US because Russia is still US's number one or 2 enemy and Europe holds great strategic importance to US. Not only that US found a way to make Russia bleed but here's the thing: they don't care about Ukraine's butcher bill or how much blood Ukraine had to shed.

US will help us but not to the extent where we can minimize our casualties and give us great offensive power, only enough to tie China down, nothing more, nothing less. And that is not an ideal situation for India.

India must develop its own resources to be able to take on China and Pakistan at the same time without needing anyone else's help. Because only in that way, India can minimize its casaulties and not be a pawn of someone else's game.

 

[shade2]

I don't get your reasoning.

America will help anyone and everyone who can needle China.

Regarding Taiwan, if America was really hesitant in defending helping Taiwan then Chinese army would have already landed on Taipei.

Taiwan confirms US troops on front-line islands near China

The stationing of American special forces trainers in Taiwan marks the first permanent U.S. presence on the self-ruled island in 45 years.

www.newsweek.com

Like how token support Ukraine is getting vs. Russia ? Oh, I would love that !

Tell me if Ukraine would have survived a single week without NATO support.

Their token support is only helping them stall and not turn the tide.

The US scheme is to "bleed Russia", with us it will be to "bleed China", ofc in the process it is the Ukies who are also bleeding now, and will be us in the future

Unlike the Ukies however we have a hostile demographic at home, who won't be recruited to die on the battlefield for obvious reasons...

You can imagine the long term consequences of this.

Better keep the Ching away till we have enough domestic industrial capacity to stave them off ourselves without fully selling out to Uncle Sam, as we build up, it becomes less "easy peasy" for the Ching to attack us and get away with minimal costs.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Tedbf airforce in 2 years ? How



View: https://t.me/diplomatic_delta/18937

For once I wish they do.

 

[shade2]

North Korea: 'No apology' for S Korea Cheonan sinking

North Korea rejects South Korean calls for an apology over the sinking of a warship, almost five years after the disaster killed 46 sailors.

www.bbc.com

This is an ancient report from 2015 of the Naarth Koreans sinking a SoKo corvette randomly in 2010.

No "befitting reply" was given from the SoKo to Naarthern brozzers over this, even though public sentiment was fully behind SoKo armed forces punishing the Kim-Jong worshippers.

A cope excuse was given that the SoKo govt was scared of the "Over 9000 Black Artillery Pieces of Kim Jong Un aimed at Seoul", but the truth is the start spangled masters of SoKo didn't allow them to retaliate, behind the scenes, remember it was 2010 and everything was Changa Xi economically in East Asia at the time.

By being US's bitch, you surrender your foreign policy to them, you attack when they tell you to, but you're supposed to take many L's when they forbid you to respond.
And the US can withdraw support at any time, leaving you holding the bag.

 

[Anants]

Tedbf airforce in 2 years ? How



View: https://t.me/diplomatic_delta/18937

Man Ada likes to scratch our old wounds and put salt on it from time to time by floating such hopes near aero india

 

[Indianhawk]

Man Ada likes to scratch our old wounds and put salt on it from time to time by floating such hopes near aero india

Sounds like click bait .
How will tedbf become interim solution to mk2?? When mk2 is nearing roll out while tebdf isn't even formally sanctioned!!
Forget about the airforce varient!!

 

[Indianhawk]

India must develop its own resources to be able to take on China and Pakistan at the same time without needing anyone else's help. Because only in that way, India can minimize its casaulties and not be a pawn of someone else's game.

Exactly. This is what Chinese have been doing since past 3-4 decades.

While we develop cutting edge technology like stealth jets in the meantime we should focus on what we are good at and can build quickly for deterrence.

Ballistic missiles build thousands of them from 300 to 3000 km and point all of them china in case of any hostility.

This is exactly how Chinese have kept USA at bay all these years while they developed their military industrial complex .

 

[mist_consecutive]

@Blademaster @shade2

I get your points. Our original discussion was regarding which fighter jet if not Rafale.

Rafale (or whatever import fighter) we get, will only allow us to stall the war and bleed and enemy who has a domestic MIC on overdrive and a 50-years expertise on manufacturing everything on the earth.

Point is F-15E & F-16 Block 80+ and if the budget permits F-35s will be a stop-gap for China steamrolling us.

We have to develop our indigenous fighters. Imports are not a replacement for Tejas, AMCA & ORCA, but just a insurance.

Regarding USA supporting us or not, no country will handhold you. Unless we get into a NATO-type agreement nothing of such sort is going to happen. At max what can happen is friendly countries helping us with weapons, intel and economic support during war, and that will matter hugely.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Their token support is only helping them stall and not turn the tide.

The US scheme is to "bleed Russia", with us it will be to "bleed China", ofc in the process it is the Ukies who are also bleeding now, and will be us in the future

Unlike the Ukies however we have a hostile demographic at home, who won't be recruited to die on the battlefield for obvious reasons...

You can imagine the long term consequences of this.

USA is no one's big brother that they will jump to your rescue without a second thought.

"Bleed China" strategy is good enough deterrence. What we know and learnt from 2020 skirmishes is that China is a cautious enemy, and doesn't play a losing game. The fear that USA will use India for their destruction is a deterrence strong enough for China to reconsider its many decisions.

Better keep the Ching away till we have enough domestic industrial capacity to stave them off ourselves without fully selling out to Uncle Sam, as we build up, it becomes less "easy peasy" for the Ching to attack us and get away with minimal costs.

Again, I have never advocated for dissolving MIC and become permanent lapdogs of foreign powers.

Keeping the China away plan sounds good but unfortunately isn't in our hands but completely depends on what China is planning. Even after goody-goody relations between Modi-Xi nariyal paani in Chennai China didn't even blink once before backstabbing us.

North Korea: 'No apology' for S Korea Cheonan sinking

North Korea rejects South Korean calls for an apology over the sinking of a warship, almost five years after the disaster killed 46 sailors.

www.bbc.com

This is an ancient report from 2015 of the Naarth Koreans sinking a SoKo corvette randomly in 2010.

No "befitting reply" was given from the SoKo to Naarthern brozzers over this, even though public sentiment was fully behind SoKo armed forces punishing the Kim-Jong worshippers.

A cope excuse was given that the SoKo govt was scared of the "Over 9000 Black Artillery Pieces of Kim Jong Un aimed at Seoul", but the truth is the start spangled masters of SoKo didn't allow them to retaliate, behind the scenes, remember it was 2010 and everything was Changa Xi economically in East Asia at the time.

By being US's bitch, you surrender your foreign policy to them, you attack when they tell you to, but you're supposed to take many L's when they forbid you to respond.
And the US can withdraw support at any time, leaving you holding the bag.

Not really informed about what happened during that incident, but what I will say is tit-for-tat reactions are generally never wise.

Well even without being US's bitch we took the last punch on the face vs. Pakistan yet didn't decide to strike back. So I guess strategic autonomy for us is like a beggar with no job mocking salarymen that they don't have any freedom.

Weak is respected by no one.

 

[Spitfire IX]

Tedbf airforce in 2 years ? How



View: https://t.me/diplomatic_delta/18937

Without evidence to the contrary, I would describe that as a ridiculous dream. It is good to have dreams. It is bad to plan your defence around them, especially when they are ridiculous.

 

[Azaad]

Tedbf airforce in 2 years ? How



View: https://t.me/diplomatic_delta/18937

TEDBF CDR is due to be completed this FY post which the IN will approach the centre for funds to begin prototyping. We'd get a lot of information on this & other programs in the forthcoming Aero India 25 air show.

You can ignore news about TEDBF featuring in the IAF in the form of ORCA or any other iteration as click bait for it's not going to happen as I detailed in a post sometime back.

The IAF already has an analogue of the TEDBF in a more sophisticated form known as the AMCA Mk-1 which is already being prototyped.

There's a strong chance you may see twice or even more than that of the 40 nos requirement projected now , going into the future now that it's fairly certain MMRCA / MRFA isn't going to materialize.

 

[shade2]

@Blademaster @shade2

I get your points. Our original discussion was regarding which fighter jet if not Rafale.

Rafale (or whatever import fighter) we get, will only allow us to stall the war and bleed and enemy who has a domestic MIC on overdrive and a 50-years expertise on manufacturing everything on the earth.

Point is F-15E & F-16 Block 80+ and if the budget permits F-35s will be a stop-gap for China steamrolling us.

We have to develop our indigenous fighters. Imports are not a replacement for Tejas, AMCA & ORCA, but just a insurance.

Regarding USA supporting us or not, no country will handhold you. Unless we get into a NATO-type agreement nothing of such sort is going to happen.

China is not going to "steamroll" us my dude, defeat yes with a pyrhhic victory but not "steamroll" because of the Himalayas.
I don't even expect major territory losses like Sikkim or AP in the event of a defeat

The main problem with the current handful of Rafales setup is that we cannot take the fight to them, we will be permanently on the defensive, same goes for any small quantities of American wunderwaffe, large quantities ofc is impossible.

There is no F-35 offered because it is a question of sovereignty and not of budget, They imposed so many conditions on F-35 purchase on the Emiratis that they purchased 80 Rafale instead, You can imagine what type of outrageous conditions these are that even the West-pasand Gulf sheikhdoms are not allowed to purchase them

At max what can happen is friendly countries helping us with weapons, intel and economic support during war, and that will matter hugely.

Is it mattering hugely for Ukraine? Did it matter hugely for South Vietnam?
And as you have mentioned before the gap between India/China isn't as big as Ukr/Rus.

Anyway US and West will still help even without purchases of F-16/15 Wunderwaffe because of the common anti-China goal, same as why they are drip-feeding Ukraine with weapon systems and munitions

 

[shade2]

Again, I have never advocated for dissolving MIC and become permanent lapdogs of foreign powers..

"Stop gap purchases" of F-15/F-16 will result in that.

US weapons are an ecosystem, they integrate seamlessly with one another, and most importantly, they integrate with other US & NATO assets.

You have in a post before mentioned about the "ecosystem" of US military hardware so you can understand how the arguments against buying any domestic fighter jets will pan out.

Already everyone and their dog got surprised over 500 or so Stryker procurement coming totally out of syllabus to kill the whAp


Anyway Emergency procoorments ke liye, assuming they take Taiwan or we know they will, any other fighter can fill the gap since F-15, even if contract will be signed today will start to be delivered in 2031+ as with this recent order for Israel https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...re-25-f-15-fighter-jets-boeing-co-2024-11-07/

So only other fighters we can get quickly is F-16, Gripen and Eurofighter.

This is purely from a numbers and quick delivery perspective, capability ka idk.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

IAF inducting F-15 and F-35 is near impossible scenario at this point. It looks good in imagination but does not happen in reality.

Only way forward is to acknowledge the challenges present before us and provide an solution for next 15-20 years. Currently RM and MOD Babus were only playing word salad instead of blatantly telling us that IAF don't have sufficient fighters, trainers to support its operation in both peace and war time.

One way to deal with way forward.

1. Acknowledge the strategic importance of having our own Jet engine is paramount.
2. Start an Roadmap with an apex body headed by PM/RM and one DRDO Sect to monitor the progress. Involve private companies from start go and convert them into suppliers once tech matures. Pour money to build necessary Infrastructure required for testing and academic collaboration to do Research on Materials necessary for an 5th gen or 6th gen. Setup Industrial Espionage units to gather information from partners (Chinese done this and we should do this).
3. Can see what we do with current programs like HAL Tejas, Sukhoi-30, Tejas MK2, NLCA, Prachand, LUH where these were in Serial production or in LSP stage.
4. If we want extra tejas then provide the numbers to field. If Tejas MK2 is ready then go with serial production of IOC spec followed by upgradation once key components matures. If HAL can produce puny 12 sukhois again, then it can produce Sukhoi in higher numbers with Indian avionics like Radar, APSJ pod and other things like MAWS, you need numbers and induct them.
5. Navy should have an NLCA squadron in A&N to provide support, NLCA is not dogshit, it has it limitations but still better to have them instead of waiting for TEDBF.
6. Replace chetaks with LUH in good numbers, Validation needs to be done concurrently. Same with Prachand order them and monitor ATGM integration. If delayed grill them.


With current products we can build enough deterrence as an confident booster. But still weaker against PLAAF numbers and fighter gens they have.