Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[karn]

Correct.
Even if any private company with the of steel required would have to invest large sums of money, hire niche talent and go through over 9000 tests to R&D the AWACs radar
Only for the "users" to reject your product and buy some of these instead https://defense.embraer.com/air/p600-aewec/



btw I don't blame the Dhandhos for , that is what they are incentivized for, not proper R&D to create their own, Indian IP and supply chains.

I used to believe that .. But take a look at the civil market as well.. There are plenty of end users there l and the behaviour is the same .. heck just go and listen to that interview of the airtel(I think) chairman about how it is more convenient to import tech rather than developing it.. But now I'm going off topic lets continue in the econ thread or something.

 

[shade2]

I used to believe that .. But take a look at the civil market as well.. There are plenty of end users there as well and the behaviour is the same .. heck just go and listen to that interview of the airtel(I think) chairman about how it is more convenient to import tech rather than developing it.. But now I'm going off topic lets continue in the econ thread or something.

No, no, this is very on-topic, we need to scrutinize the absolutely lazy narrative of GiVe tO pRivAtE SeCtOr.

Also the Airtel CEO is right, the man originally used to build literal telephones in the 90s or 80s, he later got btfo in that dhandha by a combination of (((imports))) and later on the obsolescence of landlines, fortunately he got into the telecoms service provider biz.

 

[Azaad]

The Cost of US maal is not in terms of $$$.

The Cost is when you want to do something but Masta Sam doesn't want you to, like

• The Turks doing their Cyprus Invasion in the 70s, post which they got arms embargo'd by the US but they got away in a few years because of their utility vs the USSR preventing a full rupture with NATO/US
• The Indonesians invading East Timor to Anschluss it, once again another Arms Embargo and their F-16s couldn't fly, they bought Su-27 and Su-30 out of spite and need.
• Our very own Padosi Mulq in the 1965 was where both their sugar daddies, UK/US did "both-sides" and arms embargo'd them, this caused their increased dostana with the Chings.
• Not 1:1 with the above examples but Egypt has always fought Israel over Palestine, but since Anwar Sadat pimped the country out to the US, in exchange for lots of US military aid and F-16s and Abrams, Egypt has not beefed with Israel militarily since, Ofc Egypt can give support to Hamas and other terrorist orgs if they wish to, hope you realize the parallels with our situation...

This is aside from them only wanting you to buy their own munitions and other hardware for their platforms( Israel gets an exception ofc ) and their ((( inspection regimes ))) for Non-(((Allies))) like us

For more on the ((( inspection regime))) for F-16, suffered by our Padosi Mulq, read

How America’s Experience with Pakistan Can Help it Deal with Turkey​

How America’s Experience with Pakistan Can Help it Deal with Turkey - War on the Rocks

In its ties with Turkey, the United States finds itself in a classic Catch-22. Turkish foreign policy often runs afoul of U.S. interests. However, Ankara

warontherocks.com

It is why the IAF, IN, IA avoid inducting large amounts of US made frontline combat platforms( not transport, support or parts ) till date.

The IAF runs after Rafale while F-16 Block 70/72 would provide more "benefits" of both kinds.
The IN also wants the Rafale over the F-18, once again more benefits in the latter.
Bulk of IA's stuff is Soviet/Russian.

After the INS Jalashwa (((inspection))) fiasco the IN tore out every single ((( inspectable ))) item from that ship including the Phalanx CIWS which was replaced by the good ol' AK-630

Indeed this is why most Dephens Fanbois are frothing at the mouth whenever US is mentioned, not because of any Dollar/Rupee/Euro costs.

Going all in on US gear is only good if you don't mind having your Foreign Policy controlled from Washington DC and are willing to let your armed forces be their Sepoy in invading random countries across the world.

Perhaps in the future when the US doesn't wish to remote control countries it sells arms to, they would be a good choice but not now.

View: https://twitter.com/elmihiro/status/1883323218347377012?s=19

Offered sans any comments

 

[shade2]

View: https://twitter.com/elmihiro/status/1883323218347377012?s=19

Offered sans any comments

My post you quoted contains the relevant T&C

It is why the IAF, IN, IA avoid inducting large amounts of US made frontline combat platforms( not transport, support or parts ) till date.

Unkil's maal isn't the whole and soul of any of the 3 forces.
For IAF max damage from Unkil is heavy lift transports and for IN it will be most of their fancy ASW capability.

If you were Turkey and you wanted to grab some Greek islands, Unkil tomorrow could ground all your 3 forces by comparison.

 

[karn]

No, no, this is very on-topic, we need to scrutinize the absolutely lazy narrative of GiVe tO pRivAtE SeCtOr.

Also the Airtel CEO is right, the man originally used to build literal telephones in the 90s or 80s, he later got btfo in that dhandha by a combination of (((imports))) and later on the obsolescence of landlines, fortunately he got into the telecoms service provider biz.

After a brief search on the internet.

Airtel’s History: Airtel, initially known as Bharti Telecom Limited, was founded by Sunil Bharti Mittal in 1986. The company started by assembling push-button phones in India, which were earlier imported from a Singaporean company, Singtel. This marked the beginning of Airtel’s journey in the telecom industry, replacing the old-fashioned, bulky rotary phones that were in use in the country at that time.
Manufacturing Telephones: Airtel partnered with Siemens AG of Germany to manufacture electronic push-button phones locally in India. This partnership allowed Airtel to introduce modern telephones in the Indian market, contributing to the country’s transition from rotary to push-button phone

They basically assembled a phone from Singapore and then moved onto doing (old) hero honda type business with Siemens. Not so different from screwdriver enjoyers.
If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Spoiler: A generic rant about how hard it is to build anything here

I think this is offtopic is because the root cause analysis atleast by me is always the same and extends to anyone trying to produce/develop anything in our country.
- Bribes have to be given all along the chain and to every department to get permits.
- Bribes have to be given for utilities for the factory.
- Utilities especially electricity is expensive relative to china.
- Graduates of colleges, diploma mills and ITIs are retarded and have limited exposure to industry during education.

 

[karn]

Ok .. For a private company to develop a radar they would need to have some expertise in producing radars ... And the number of private companies producing/developing radars in country is *checks notes* fuck all.

This hyperbole .. I am well aware of the existence of Astra Microwaves though they don't build AESA radars.

 

[shade2]

This hyperbole .. I am well aware of the existence of Astra Microwaves though they don't build AESA radars.

They are not going to burn their own money on R&D for an AWACS radar though.
And if Govt gives them a grant for R&D then you know what will happen, pic related

 

[RocketMan]

What does India has to do relieve the AWACS and AEW&S shortage in the airforce.

My recommendation is to take it out of DRDO hands and give it private sector. Alternative is to fire the DRDO scientists working on this project for 30 years and send them home. I will deny them pension for which they are working for incompetence.

How do the others in forum feel.

Why don't we import more AWACS ?

 

[SKC]

What does India has to do relieve the AWACS and AEW&S shortage in the airforce.

My recommendation is to take it out of DRDO hands and give it private sector. Alternative is to fire the DRDO scientists working on this project for 30 years and send them home. I will deny them pension for which they are working for incompetence.

How do the others in forum feel.

Unfortunately, India is not being run as per how we feel.

It feels so good when someone mentions the bold text above but even our beloved PM is not able to do anything regards to that. Instead of cutting their pension, we see increase in their Pay by various Pay Commissions.​

 

[Suryavanshi]

I feel it's too easy for people like us to sit on a sofa, in an air-conditioned room, sipping evening tea far from all the chaos that goes into manufacturing even a small plastic part let alone a multi-million, advanced system and ask for termination of scientists who are forced to work on a shoestring budget.

And if we're really adamant on scrutinizing them then first we should try to answer few questions

1. What is the timeline of fund release and deliveries?
2. Was there an event that was beyond the control of DRDO? Like say a pandemic or the kind of issue HAL is facing with engines
3. How much is the end product costing us compared to something in the open market?
4. What level of technological experiences are we gaining from this project that can be rapidly implemented in future projects?

True we Pawjeets are too entitled.
How many aircraft have we researched and made on our own? Tejas, hal 31, 26, hf 24, Saras?
Less than a dozen.
Go look at the list of aircraft produced by Russia, over 300 differnet types of aircraft produced since 1950s.
They have tried all different types of wings, shapes, purpose aircraft.
How can we hope to achieve parity with them when we aren't ready to shed some billions without strings attached?

Forum memberans itself would turn on Goemimt and Scientists if no tangible materiel comes out of research let alone the opposition and general "feeling e proud Indian army" janata.

A nation who says why do we need to invest in bullet trains will have no appreciation for non tangible scientific research.

It's not necessary that we may succeed in developing the final product we set out to build. As long as material research, electrical component research and production process is documented on paper or hard disk than it's not a failure.

Jeets need to embrace the idea or rapid prototyping and keep at it until you make it.

The central ethos of Hindu religion has been lost to us.

 

[Hari Sud]

Unfortunately, India is not being run as per how we feel.

It feels so good when someone mentions the bold text above but even our beloved PM is not able to do anything regards to that. Instead of cutting their pension, we see increase in their Pay by various Pay Commissions.​

Spend all the money on war materials instead of development and social welfare and become a beggar state like Pakistan and a few others. That choice a bulk of India populace will not excercise except a few vested interests. That means that Indian military matter research has to be privatized and made more efficient. The governments are definitely inefficient in research and development etc…. Think about it?

 

[shade2]

I was browsing plebbit and found a few pics showing the rough size of IAF platforms

Apache and LCH Prachand




Rafale, Tejas and Su-30MKI



Mi-24, Apache and ALH Rudra

 

[Spitfire IX]

Spend all the money on war materials instead of development and social welfare and become a beggar state like Pakistan and a few others. That choice a bulk of India populace will not excercise except a few vested interests. That means that Indian military matter research has to be privatized and made more efficient. The governments are definitely inefficient in research and development etc…. Think about it?

It would make a difference if funds were used more effectively on defence in India. That would be more likely if the labyrinthine state military development and production sectors were simplified and streamlined and there were a performance motive - as in profit in the private sector.

GOI and GOI-controlled or -owned entities seem to have little interest in being productive.

 

[Hari Sud]

It would make a difference if funds were used more effectively on defence in India. That would be more likely if the labyrinthine state military development and production sectors were simplified and streamlined and there were a performance motive - as in profit in the private sector.

GOI and GOI-controlled or -owned entities seem to have little interest in being productive.

Good luck for your effective lesson…..

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

Misc,

You mistake my post as if I was saying India was a runt like Ukraine. No I am not. But remember Russia is not China and China is not Russia. China has far more resources than Russia.

And Ukraine has a more strategic importance to US because Russia is still US's number one or 2 enemy and Europe holds great strategic importance to US. Not only that US found a way to make Russia bleed but here's the thing: they don't care about Ukraine's butcher bill or how much blood Ukraine had to shed.

US will help us but not to the extent where we can minimize our casualties and give us great offensive power, only enough to tie China down, nothing more, nothing less. And that is not an ideal situation for India.

India must develop its own resources to be able to take on China and Pakistan at the same time without needing anyone else's help. Because only in that way, India can minimize its casaulties and not be a pawn of someone else's game.

think from american military companies point of view, who runs america. if USA isnt involved in any other wars, they definitely want someone ruin chinese military nd other resources in a war. if india goes for war,,,,i dont think america, france, israel, may be russia also dont want to drop this golden opportunity to make big profit by buying their weapons. thats what countries do/did, they will sell their equipment in higher price to india in a war, if they r not involve with china. india 620+ billion dollar forex reserves make sure that neutral nd enemy countries of china want to buy their used nd unused weapons to india in a war.

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

TEDBF CDR is due to be completed this FY post which the IN will approach the centre for funds to begin prototyping. We'd get a lot of information on this & other programs in the forthcoming Aero India 25 air show.

You can ignore news about TEDBF featuring in the IAF in the form of ORCA or any other iteration as click bait for it's not going to happen as I detailed in a post sometime back.

The IAF already has an analogue of the TEDBF in a more sophisticated form known as the AMCA Mk-1 which is already being prototyped.

There's a strong chance you may see twice or even more than that of the 40 nos requirement projected now , going into the future now that it's fairly certain MMRCA / MRFA isn't going to materialize.

ORCA hv no place in IAF...TEDBF will take 2033-35 itself for production ready (if everything going according to plan).
1:- tejas mark 2 will take time for production ready near 2028-30. that time our jaguar, mirage 2000 nd mig 29 will starting to retire. so tejas mark 2 will replace all these fighters.
2:- if TEDBF will production ready near 2033-35,,,its air version take another 2-3 year for production ready. that time no aircraft is ready to retire nd if we need additional fighter squadron, we can buy additional tejas mark 2.
3:- than near 2042, our first batch of su 30 mki will completed their 40 year of service. although russian aircraft can give 50 years service life nd our air force known for sucking last drop of juice of aircraft. let assume our first batch of su30 mki was ready to retire near 2042. that time we hv AMCA (finger crossed ) nd 5 genration technology. so replacing su 30 mki with a 4.5 genration ORCA doesnt make sense. that time a single engine, medium weight, less operation cost 5 genration fighter (just like su75) make more sense to replace su 30 mki. we dont need heavy weight 5 genration aircraft, coz we hv 1500+ km range cruise missiles nd ghatak like stealth bombers for ground missions. cats system makes our 4.5 genration fighters keep away from enemy bvr missiles nd sam missiles. hope they also add a stealthy BVR equipped cats warrior drone. current cats warrior drones also hv two bvr, but it will be hanged on outer sides nd close range infrared BVR. what we need a proper bvr euip internal bay in hunter. which make it much more stealthy.