Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[randombully]

I'd add all aspect stealth to it & active stealth

Do you mean plasma stealth when you said active stealth? EW as active stealth?
If it's plasma then it will actually degrade the stealth, plus ir signature will go so much up that ir sensors could track the jet from 100+km easily.

If its EW we already have that, though more advance EW equipment will come by than.

Expect these the only other kind of active stealth I think off are adaptive RAM materials/meta materials for aircraft skin, materials that can through electrical signal change properties to better deal with different freq.
It x band waves hit it adapts to better absorb x band.
If L band hits it, it does the same.
Though this tech is not even in its infancy.
And very low chances of it ever happening.

 

[randombully]

If you aren't aware there's such a thing as classified briefings offered by the OEM & DoD / Pentagon on the F-35 to prospective customers which if I'm not mistaken also needs Congressional approval. Plus there are levels to these classified briefings .

Why the hell would they brief me & why the hell would you offer to educate me on these systems ? In any case what makes you think I even see you as some sort of resident authority on these systems ?

Respect is earned not demanded or requested. It's commanded.

I know classified briefing exist.
What I said was again "publicly availabile data" briefing on its capabilities.

 

[randombully]

I'm least interested in what Wumaos say or how they qualify stealth.

It's still a paper by the designer of j36.
Any sane person would consider it worth giving a look if they are interested in knowing what future 6th gen offers.

 

[randombully]

You calk me liar the next time without any evidence whatsoever & by God you'd get it . Don't try my patience & mistake my tolerance for weakness or patience for taciturnity.

Bc, movie kye maar raha hai internet pe.

 

[Azaad]

What is the definition of vlo and lo according to you?

Anything measuring 0.001 onwards would be stealth as far as VLO goes .

At what rcs does vlo start according to you?

Not to mention su57 having iwb while rafale carrying external weapons.

AMCA Mk-1 will have IWB too. Yet it is powered by F-414 TFs. ADA claims it is stealth. It's another matter when our own indigenous 120 KN TFs arrive , they'd replace the F-414 TFs aboard the AMCA Mk-1 . Till then how would you see the Mk-1s ?
LO ? VLO ? VVLO ?

But again based on what I know.
Frontal median spherical rcs in x band.
Rafale, SH blk3,tejas mk2= 0.1-0.2m2( clean without payload)

As said before I consider rcs of 0.5m2 and lower as LO.

Then we differ on the definition of stealth as I've given you my parameters above whereas you're deliberately keeping your standards higher ( or lower depending on one's PoV) to accommodate the Su-57.

And consider rcs of 0.05m2 and lower as vlo.
Su57= 0.01-0.03 m2
J20=0.003-0.006 m2
F35=0.0005-0.001 m2

 

[randombully]

AMCA Mk-1 will have IWB too. Yet it is powered by F-414 TFs. ADA claims it is stealth. It's another matter when our own indigenous 120 KN TFs arrive , they'd replace the F-414 TFs aboard the AMCA Mk-1 . Till then how would you see the Mk-1s ?
LO ? VLO ? VVLO ?

As vlo.

 

[Azaad]

Much better to just use "non stealth jet" here.
In future many more upgrades for tejas mk2 and other jets will come.
We can't just continue adding more ++.
Like 4.5+++++ etc jet
But again, as you said, it can integrate quite well with cca and coordinate as one system.
Though again, it's unclear what "complete" integration mean here.

Anything below 5th Gen is non stealthy whereas there's no universal definition of Stealth . Let's leave it at that.

 

[Azaad]

What international appearances?
It's made by using radar scattering on the 3 models of all these jets( they even modeled inside of ducts, like radar blockers inside su57, so very detailed models).
Then they applied ram with 90% radar absorption In simulation of all three and simulated L, S, X and VHF band.
They only simulated frontal rcs.
And these no. Came out for simpler understanding.

J-20 has not moved outside the Chinese air space. The only military aircraft that have made contact with the J-20 would be the Taiwanese & the US FAs , possibly the Japanese too. I haven't seen them release any such readings .

So where are these numbers from ? From photographs on the net which then get uploaded to these S/w which measures RCS & generate figures which people like you duly lap up & post here .

 

[Azaad]

When did I say no stealth?
You asked why us is going for ngad if they can upgrade f35 to 6th gen.
I told the reason ngad be "larger" "more range" "more endurace"
" bigger iwb" " more power generation for avionics" "more power for future DEW"
All these that f35 doesn't have due to its size and will not have in future even it gets upgrades with 6th gen tech.
Also as mentioned before some did question whether f35 be "completely" brought yo 6th gen standard.

You never included stealth either in your wish list for what the NGAD & the F/A - XX FAs would be which nobody could've overlooked while drawing up a wish list for the aforementioned FAs. ? The error if it was so was so glaring that its absence had to ne questioned .

Hence I asked.

 

[Azaad]

Do you mean plasma stealth when you said active stealth? EW as active stealth?

In addition to shaping stealth aka passive stealth like no vertical stabilizer no canards & other such disqualifers , in active stealth I'd include EA / EW .

Plasma stealth is a concept right now. No clue how it'd shape up ? And no that's not what J meant by active stealth .

If it's plasma then it will actually degrade the stealth, plus ir signature will go so much up that ir sensors could track the jet from 100+km easily.

If its EW we already have that, though more advance EW equipment will come by than.

Expect these the only other kind of active stealth I think off are adaptive RAM materials/meta materials for aircraft skin, materials that can through electrical signal change properties to better deal with different freq.

It x band waves hit it adapts to better absorb x band.
If L band hits it, it does the same.
Though this tech is not even in its infancy.
And very low chances of it ever happening.

Who knows ? 6 decades ago whoever thought there'd be such a thing as a stealth FA ? Yet here we are.

 

[Azaad]

I know classified briefing exist.
What I said was again "publicly availabile data" briefing on its capabilities.

Publically available data by its very definition is available to everyone . Unless of course you're claiming some extra privilege only you're granted. Why would I need you to explain it to me ? What's wrong with you ?

 

[Azaad]

Bc, movie kye maar raha hai internet pe.

Behen se toh milaa , phir bc bula.

 

[randombully]

Then we differ on the definition of stealth as I've given you my parameters above whereas you're deliberately keeping your standards higher ( or lower depending on one's PoV) to accommodate the Su-57.

My standards are based on these factor.
I consider a normal modern GaAs aesa radar with 1000-1500 trm.
If under optimal conditions( not EW to degrade the radar) it can track the jet beyond wvr( within visual range) range than the jet will not be a vlo.
For a jet to be vlo the radar should not be able to track it beyond wvr range( 40-50km)
I took wvr because at this range irst is much better than radar in tracking jet, so radars are not useful at this range and because you will tracked by irst, stealth is also not game changer anymore, and unlike rcs ir signatures is hard to reduce by magnitudes.
So even f35, j20 etc with reduction in ir signature cam be tracked by more irst at 30-50km.

Based on simulations and using this formula as base and putting realistic conditions.
Also putting capabilities of that radar as being able to track a 0.5m2 target at 130-150km under optimal conditions( realistic for modern aesa radars without any EW degradation)
We get.
For f35.
Detection range:-23-26 km.
Tracking range:- 16-18km.
For j20.
Detection range:-35-40km
Tracking range:-25 to 30km.
For su57
Detection range:-50-60km.
Tracking range:- 35-40km.

Tracking for All is below wvr range.

for comparison if we take a LO target like rafale, tejas mk2, SH blk3 with frontal median rcs of 0.1m2-0.2m2( clean configuration without payload, not combat capable) at x band.

Then detection range:- 80-110km.
Tracking range:- 65-80km
So tracking range exceed vwr range here .


Hence me putting su57 as a vlo jet.
Also with payload su57's rcs will not increase where as for rafale, tejas mk2, shblk3 their rcs can increase upto 0.5-0.8m2 just by carrying pure air to air payload with not fuel tank.

 

[Azaad]

My standards are based on these factor.
I consider a normal modern GaAs aesa radar with 1000-1500 trm.
If under optimal conditions( not EW to degrade the radar) it can track the jet beyond wvr( within visual range) range than the jet will not be a vlo.
For a jet to be vlo the radar should not be able to track it beyond wvr range( 40-50km)
I took wvr because at this range irst is much better than radar in tracking jet, so radars are not useful at this range and because you will tracked by irst, stealth is also not game changer anymore, and unlike rcs ir signatures is hard to reduce by magnitudes.
So even f35, j20 etc with reduction in ir signature cam be tracked by more irst at 30-50km.

Based on simulations and using this formula as base and putting realistic conditions.
Also putting capabilities of that radar as being able to track a 0.5m2 target at 130-150km under optimal conditions( realistic for modern aesa radars without any EW degradation)
We get.
For f35.
Detection range:-23-26 km.
Tracking range:- 16-18km.
For j20.
Detection range:-35-40km
Tracking range:-25 to 30km.
For su57
Detection range:-50-60km.
Tracking range:- 35-40km.

All below wvr range.

for comparison if we take a LO target like rafale, tejas mk2, SH blk3 with frontal median rcs of 0.1m2-0.2m2( clean configuration without payload, not combat capable) at x band.

Then detection range:- 80-110km.
Tracking range:- 65-80km
So tracking range exceed vwr range here .


Hence me putting su57 as a vlo jet.
Also with payload su57's rcs will not increase where as for rafale, tejas mk2, shblk3 their rcs can increase upto 0.5-0.8 just by carrying pure air to air payload with not fuel tank.

Very good work but do me a favor & stop tagging me & I'd reciprocate. I've plenty on my plate & I don't need anything more .

You're essentially a very uncouth person . You may not mean it but that doesn't take away from the fact that you are uncouth.

I'm not your age that you take liberties with me & I let it pass & I've no wish to get into a slanging match on the net with some random stranger trading abusive language.

My apologies for tagging you earlier on.

 

[randombully]

Publically available data by its very definition is available to everyone . Unless of course you're claiming some extra privilege only you're granted. Why would I need you to explain it to me ? What's wrong with you ?

No, available does not mean everyone know it.
Do you know how many types of jamming that exist? Spoofing jamming? White noise jamming?
Do you know difference between ir sensors of maws and Das?
Do you know maws uses ir sensors?
Do you know how radar lobe works?
Do you know why aesa are harder to jam?
Do you know advantages of fly by light/ optic over fly by wire?
Do you know composition of ram paints?
Do you know advantages of single one peice bulkhead over assembled bulkhead?
Do you know how those serrations on engine and panels of stealth jet help in stealth?
Do you know why L band can detect Stealth jets father than x band?
Do you know why fighter jet radars are x band not L,S, ku and vhf band?

All publicly available data.