Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Fatalis]

Yes, but there is no point in buying 2058 for ships like Talwar and Shivalik.
For Talwar MLU - MFR-X and VL-SRSAM
For Shivalik MLU - smaller version of 6m SBR and M1

IMHO, the Navy wants to make MFSTAR + MRSAM standard system whole the whole capital fleet.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Some company called merchant or something bought it right ?

Swan Energy Ltd

https://swan.co.in/news-details.php/revived-pipavav-shipyard-powers-ahead-with-$500m-in-new-capital

 

[vampyrbladez]

Indian Navy to commission last Scorpene-class submarine & first Nilgiri-class frigate in January 2025

Vagsheer, the 6th & last Scorpene-class submarine, was ordered in 2005 & launched in April 2022. The guided missile Nilgiri-class frigate will be the first of 7 new stealth frigates.

The Indian Navy is set to begin 2025 with two new commissionings. The last of the Kalvari-class or Scorpene-class submarines and the first of the Nilgiri-class frigates are likely to be commissioned in January, ThePrint has learnt.

Both were scheduled for commissioning in December, but the timelines have changed, according to sources in the defence and security establishment.

Furthermore, on 18 December, Nirdeshak, the second Survey Vessel Large (SVL) ship is set to be commissioned by Union Minister of State for Defence Sanjay Seth in Visakhapatnam. The first such vessel, INS Sandhyak, was inducted by Defence Minister Rajnath Singh in February 2024.

https://theprint.in/defence/indian-...ilgiri-class-frigate-in-january-2025/2397554/

 

[Cheepek]

India’s ambitious $6 billion submarine building plan stalls after sea tests

India's ambitious $6 billion submarine project faces a year-long delay due to contractor complaints about sea trials. The project, crucial for modernizing the Indian Navy against China's growing presence, tests Modi's defense policy promoting local manufacturing. German and Spanish firms...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[Asmodeus]

India’s ambitious $6 billion submarine building plan stalls after sea tests

India's ambitious $6 billion submarine project faces a year-long delay due to contractor complaints about sea trials. The project, crucial for modernizing the Indian Navy against China's growing presence, tests Modi's defense policy promoting local manufacturing. German and Spanish firms...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

the people said
Clearly, Garbage news. NO source. Even Subs design isn't finalised and people complain about procedure.. lmao.


The Indian Navy and Mazagon didn’t respond to emails seeking comments.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

India’s ambitious $6 billion submarine building plan stalls after sea tests

India's ambitious $6 billion submarine project faces a year-long delay due to contractor complaints about sea trials. The project, crucial for modernizing the Indian Navy against China's growing presence, tests Modi's defense policy promoting local manufacturing. German and Spanish firms...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

A word salad of unknown sources said this and that.

A proper hit piece.

 

[fire starter]

Dalali rukni nahi chahiye mitroo.

View: https://x.com/sriramthg/status/1868153588901646742?t=QfTNHvbPxbhQ-umTWTECtQ&s=19

View: https://x.com/Firezstarter1/status/1868149120340562214?t=YjsJ3TjJSxJbOoAT5doMrw&s=19

 

[Fatalis]

View: https://x.com/livefist/status/1868634720902557759

 

[darkflame]

View: https://x.com/indiannavy/status/1867174602151170250
L&T will make two of the five FSS

 

[Migflug]

View: https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/1868960462739529799

 

[Migflug]

View: https://x.com/livefist/status/1868634720902557759

Inclined launchers are an odd choice for a "NEXT" generation missile vessel.

 

[Fatalis]

KEEL LAYING OF SIXTH SHIP (BY 528, MAGDALA) OF ASW SWC PROJECT AT CSL, KOCHI

Keel Laying of the sixth ship (BY 528, Magdala) of the Anti-Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Craft (A

pib.gov.in

 

[NerVik]

Inclined launchers are an odd choice for a "NEXT" generation missile vessel.

That's what I was thinking, did they do this to contain costs of putting up a vls? What is the use case of these missile vessels and what sort of threats are they likely to address? Do we know of any other contemporary ships in other navies with similar operational parameters and guidelines? It would be good to compare and know where we stand.

 

[Migflug]

That's what I was thinking, did they do this to contain costs of putting up a vls? What is the use case of these missile vessels and what sort of threats are they likely to address? Do we know of any other contemporary ships in other navies with similar operational parameters and guidelines? It would be good to compare and know where we stand.

Earlier it was not there. Don't know why they changed the older configurations which had only VLS. These ships in the 30s will look like ships from the 80s due to these archaic slanted launchers.AFAIK no new ships anywhere being inducted have them

 

[ezsasa]

That's what I was thinking, did they do this to contain costs of putting up a vls? What is the use case of these missile vessels and what sort of threats are they likely to address? Do we know of any other contemporary ships in other navies with similar operational parameters and guidelines? It would be good to compare and know where we stand.

Israeli saar-6 mini corvette is of similar category, but with 1900 tonnes that is 400 more than NGMV.
since these are littoral boats, i suppose there won't be many contemporaries outside of asia for this exact class.





Australia's Tasman class corvette 3600 t

 

[mist_consecutive]

Inclined launchers are an odd choice for a "NEXT" generation missile vessel.

That's what I was thinking, did they do this to contain costs of putting up a vls? What is the use case of these missile vessels and what sort of threats are they likely to address? Do we know of any other contemporary ships in other navies with similar operational parameters and guidelines? It would be good to compare and know where we stand.

Earlier it was not there. Don't know why they changed the older configurations which had only VLS. These ships in the 30s will look like ships from the 80s due to these archaic slanted launchers.AFAIK no new ships anywhere being inducted have them

Inclined launchers because the vessel lacks depth to house a VLS long-enough to accomodate anti-ship missiles.

Another example, Chinese Type 22 missile boats -

 

[Ayan Barat]

Inclined launchers are an odd choice for a "NEXT" generation missile vessel.

Not really; there are definitely things that could have been improved like maybe tried a catamaran hull for faster speed or add 8 BrahMos instead of 4...but inclined launcher has nothing to do with being futuristic or obsolete.

Also one has to look that from where exactly someone is arriving at an exact design. See the boats that are supposed to be replaced by MGMV and you'd see why they would have such inclination for inclined launcher (pun intended).

That's what I was thinking, did they do this to contain costs of putting up a vls?

Yup, most probably.
Also an inclined launching variant of BrahMos should be bit cheaper than VLS launching variant (my theory, I could be totally wrong) as you don't need those extra bits to do "" and instead it's just a simple "" launch.

What is the use case of these missile vessels

Naval equivalent of what we call Combat Air Patrol during peace time; it's easier to do so with smaller vessels - crews.

In times of war these would be used either as "raiders" (like Trident or Python) or to overwhelm an attacking flotilla.

Do we know of any other contemporary ships in other navies with similar operational parameters and guidelines?

Yup, not very far away...Indian Navy.
All the Veers and Khukris and Koras are pretty much this only. Except for obviously stuff like radar and electronic, the armament gets kind of equivalent...they have 16 short ranged subsonic missile, these will have 4 long ranged supersonic ones.

It would be good to compare and know where we stand.

Ummmmnnnn...it's better not to

AFAIK no new ships anywhere being inducted have them

Again, inclined launchers are in no way inherently bad. The gold standard of fast attack missile boats is the Norwegian Skjold Class and they have have inclined launchers

Though the reasoning is different; they went for it to reduce the radar cross section as much as possible and also they didn't have the sufficient draft to place them upright. For us it's cost cutting and keeping things simple.

But was it theoretical possible to use a VLS by say integrating it with the superstructure. Absolutely, see this new Chinese optionally manned vessel for example

But then someone might come up with the argument that it's always better to not merge your boom-boom stuff with soft-squishy stuff, there should be some degree of stand-off in case of a catastrophic failure. Like this Type 055

So as with every weapons designing, everything is a compromise between two parameters.

As for what could have been improved in this design, here's my opinion worth 4 aana
• The first and foremost and as I already mentioned, 8 instead of 4 BrahMos.
• Extendable inclined launchers on the sides would have greatly reduced RCS. For a basic idea

• Or how long are we going to continue with this DoorDarshan antenna set-up. Atleast in smaller ships where you don't need all those systems like multiple radars, multiple ECM/ECCMs, INT set-ups...you could have easily gone for a cleaner, RCS reduced mast-superstructure.

Israeli saar-6 mini corvette is of similar category, but with 1900 tonnes that is 400 more than NGMV.
since these are littoral boats, i suppose there won't be many contemporaries outside of asia for this exact class.

You won't believe Ezsasa how much I wish to engage in a constructive discussion with you but at the last moment I shy away fearing you might come up with some neighbour uncle like tough questions
So what do you do? How much is your in-hand kid? Don't talk to me unless you're currently working in WITCH.
Sad

Anyways, gonna take the risk...the problem with most of the Indian ships, especially those designed in India is that it's pretty hard to find a contemporary to compare as most are under armed in respect to their tonnage. So if you look for similar weighing ships, most of time they'd be over armed. And if you look for similarly armed ships, they'd be lighter.

Like all current cruisers and heavy destroyers are pretty much similar.
Ticonderoga - 10kT - 122 cells
055 - 12kT - 112 cells
Maya - 10kT - 96 cells
Sejong - 10kt - 100 cells
Pretty much in the range of 1 missile per 100 ton of ship. For us this number would be far more because of constrained budget. Even the upcoming P-18 might lack in this.

Baaki bhul chuk maaf Ezsasa Bhaiya

 

[Blademaster]

You won't believe Ezsasa how much I wish to engage in a constructive discussion with you but at the last moment I shy away fearing you might come up with some neighbour uncle like tough questions
So what do you do? How much is your in-hand kid? Don't talk to me unless you're currently working in WITCH.
Sad

Don't get sassy or smart. It ruins the rest of your post which is informative.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Don't get sassy or smart. It ruins the rest of your post which is informative

And you please don't go back to your "how can you be so derisive to quote a song lyrics" arc, we've already gone through that once. It ruins my mood when out of nowhere someone "behaves" like a boomer and lectures me for unnecessary stuff.

• There's nothing offensive or slang in my post.
• There enough informative stuff to focus on.

 

[NerVik]

Not really; there are definitely things that could have been improved like maybe tried a catamaran hull for faster speed or add 8 BrahMos instead of 4...but inclined launcher has nothing to do with being futuristic or obsolete.

Also one has to look that from where exactly someone is arriving at an exact design. See the boats that are supposed to be replaced by MGMV and you'd see why they would have such inclination for inclined launcher (pun intended).

Yup, most probably.
Also an inclined launching variant of BrahMos should be bit cheaper than VLS launching variant (my theory, I could be totally wrong) as you don't need those extra bits to do "" and instead it's just a simple "" launch.

Naval equivalent of what we call Combat Air Patrol during peace time; it's easier to do so with smaller vessels - crews.

In times of war these would be used either as "raiders" (like Trident or Python) or to overwhelm an attacking flotilla.

Yup, not very far away...Indian Navy.
All the Veers and Khukris and Koras are pretty much this only. Except for obviously stuff like radar and electronic, the armament gets kind of equivalent...they have 16 short ranged subsonic missile, these will have 4 long ranged supersonic ones.

Ummmmnnnn...it's better not to

Again, inclined launchers are in no way inherently bad. The gold standard of fast attack missile boats is the Norwegian Skjold Class and they have have inclined launchers
View attachment 18839
Though the reasoning is different; they went for it to reduce the radar cross section as much as possible and also they didn't have the sufficient draft to place them upright. For us it's cost cutting and keeping things simple.

But was it theoretical possible to use a VLS by say integrating it with the superstructure. Absolutely, see this new Chinese optionally manned vessel for example
View attachment 18840
But then someone might come up with the argument that it's always better to not merge your boom-boom stuff with soft-squishy stuff, there should be some degree of stand-off in case of a catastrophic failure. Like this Type 055
View attachment 18841
So as with every weapons designing, everything is a compromise between two parameters.

As for what could have been improved in this design, here's my opinion worth 4 aana
• The first and foremost and as I already mentioned, 8 instead of 4 BrahMos.
• Extendable inclined launchers on the sides would have greatly reduced RCS. For a basic idea
View attachment 18843
• Or how long are we going to continue with this DoorDarshan antenna set-up. Atleast in smaller ships where you don't need all those systems like multiple radars, multiple ECM/ECCMs, INT set-ups...you could have easily gone for a cleaner, RCS reduced mast-superstructure.

You won't believe Ezsasa how much I wish to engage in a constructive discussion with you but at the last moment I shy away fearing you might come up with some neighbour uncle like tough questions
So what do you do? How much is your in-hand kid? Don't talk to me unless you're currently working in WITCH.
Sad

Anyways, gonna take the risk...the problem with most of the Indian ships, especially those designed in India is that it's pretty hard to find a contemporary to compare as most are under armed in respect to their tonnage. So if you look for similar weighing ships, most of time they'd be over armed. And if you look for similarly armed ships, they'd be lighter.

Like all current cruisers and heavy destroyers are pretty much similar.
Ticonderoga - 10kT - 122 cells
055 - 12kT - 112 cells
Maya - 10kT - 96 cells
Sejong - 10kt - 100 cells
Pretty much in the range of 1 missile per 100 ton of ship. For us this number would be far more because of constrained budget. Even the upcoming P-18 might lack in this.

Baaki bhul chuk maaf Ezsasa Bhaiya

Why are our ships so under armed? It's really very curious to see. I can assume we have fewer AShM is because most of our ships are now moving to brahmos and maybe we can do same level of damage with fewer brahmos. But why is the SAM capacity so low? The most i have seen on our ships is 32 barak 1, that doesn't even give us proper SAM coverage let alone ABM capacity. What is the navy rationale for this design/policy?