Indian Politics and Democracy

[ezsasa]

The converse is also, at the first sign of push back, 56DD will roll it back. When comic book followers block the streets and start riots, hriday samrat goes MIA. I truly believe he had nothing to do with 2002 Guj riots. It was the aam gujju who for a change went medieval on the peacefuls.

he was saying it himself in his petitions to courts, public at that time were desperate for a messiah. they got it. he is a politician, why would he deny it ?

 

[Anants]

thru petitions, approaching public representatives, thru court cases, inviting public representatives to meetings and informing them infront of audience. i.e directly.

Social media is cheap and available immediately to common people. The things which you suggest are past times of well funded & connected individuals and organizations.

using foreign owned social media as a medium, is as good as inviting east India company to settle disputes between the rajas. that is how east India company gained a foothold.

Promoting Indigenous social media is responsibility of the Govt. When Govt itself eschewed Hike,Chirrups, Koo and runs to hug likes of Zuckerberg and then goes to use and promote the foreign social media platform. People shall follow them. Doesnt Govt gloat time to time that PM has so many followers on Social Media channels?? Gates to East India company were first opened by the Ruler themselves - Junta just followed ruler.

 

[ezsasa]

Social media is cheap and available immediately to common people. The things which you suggest are past times well funded & connected individuals and organizations.


Promoting Indigenous social media is responsibility of the Govt. When Govt itself eschewed Chirrups, Koo and runs to hug likes of Zuckerberg and then goes to use and promote the foreign social media platform. People shall follow them. Doesnt Govt gloat time to time that PM has so many followers on Social Media channels?? Gates to East India company were first opened by the Ruler themselves - Junta just followed ruler.

yes, this is the dilemma for now. this needs resolution.

 

[ezsasa]

The converse is also, at the first sign of push back, 56DD will roll it back. When comic book followers block the streets and start riots, hriday samrat goes MIA.

and on this, if public wants someone to bulldoze changes, then pick someone with abrahamic mindset next time, but also be ready to face the consequences. BD is recent example.

a hindu mindset will always think thru consequences for next seven janam, before doing anything.

 

[altruistRor]

thru petitions, approaching public representatives, thru court cases, inviting public representatives to meetings and informing them infront of audience. i.e directly.

using foreign owned social media as a medium, is as good as inviting east India company to settle disputes between the rajas. that is how east India company gained a foothold.

In that case, it's not possible. India is entirely dependent on foreign-owned social media. There seems to be no turning back.

Petitions don't have much impact in India, and court cases are often influenced by woke ideology. Reaching out to public representatives is out of the question; they consider the common citizen insignificant, naali ka keeda.

Organizations like RSS and VHP, which have significant grassroots support, have been made irrelevant.

Social media is the most accessible and time-efficient tool to raise concerns, but all of them are foreign-controlled. Koo came, lost 200 crore, and vanished. If it had received enough support, it could have been a starting point.

Will also blame the big business houses; instead of investing in outdated media outlets, they should have pushed for a homegrown social media network.

Don't know if government strategists and officials have ever discussed these parameters with business owners. We've had the last five years since the Shaheen Bagh events, which clearly showed how social media networks can be misused.

With a clear majority, the government should have compelled several big businesses to establish a homegrown social media network.

Sadly nothing such happened.

 

[ezsasa]

In that case, it's not possible. India is entirely dependent on foreign-owned social media. There seems to be no turning back.

Petitions don't have much impact in India, and court cases are often influenced by woke ideology. Reaching out to public representatives is out of the question; they consider the common citizen insignificant, naali ka keeda.

Organizations like RSS and VHP, which have significant grassroots support, have been made irrelevant.

Social media is the most accessible and time-efficient tool to raise concerns, but all of them are foreign-controlled. Koo came, lost 200 crore, and vanished. If it had received enough support, it could have been a starting point.

Will also blame the big business houses; instead of investing in outdated media outlets, they should have pushed for a homegrown social media network.

Don't know if government strategists and officials have ever discussed these parameters with business owners. We've had the last five years since the Shaheen Bagh events, which clearly showed how social media networks can be misused.

With a clear majority, the government should have compelled several big businesses to establish a homegrown social media network.

Sadly nothing such happened.

this factor weighs heavily on my mind, when i am having an opinion on current affairs.

 

[Anants]

yes, this is the dilemma for now. this needs resolution.

Resolution is simple - Make Indian social Company formed by share holding b y IT industries. Make that company buy and operate platforms like Koo, Hike.. , after sprucing them up and then only use those platforms for official Govt communication. Create bots which just copy pastes content from internal social media apps to twitter or other SM Accounts - If some one want to reply - have them redirected to internal social media platform. Moment Indian Govt goes in SM - some other countries will also join in. Bollywood, Tollywood etc could be made to use the platform for advt and glitz. Whats needed Govt support and foresight. When Koo and Hike close.. govt should not be like .. yeh to globalization or capitalism hai - survival of fittest. Some areas esp communication channels should be owned by the Govt (clandenstinely)

 

[ezsasa]

Resolution is simple - Make Indian social Company formed by share holding b y IT industries. Buy platforms like Koo, Hike.. , spruce them up and only use those platforms for official communication. Create bots which just copy paste content from internal social media apps to twitter or other SM Accounts. Moment Indian Govt goes in SM - some other countries will also join in. Bollywood, Tollywood etc could be made to use the platform for advt and glitz. Whats needed Govt support and foresight. When Koo and Hike close.. govt should not be like .. yeh to globalization or capitalism hai - survival of fittest. Some areas esp communication channels should be owned by the Govt (clandenstinely)

when you say govt, you are factoring political leadership only or govt machinery too?

 

[Anants]

when you say govt, you are factoring political leadership only or govt machinery too?

Govt machinery... If you are asking about last line. Because its inevitable anyway - with what I purpose. Can likes of Cong disabuse? Yes. BUt this shall give rise to use of alternate platforms. Remember alternate platform shall only be used when that platform is "attractive" (like twitter - you know its using age old means to attract more client base among youth) or free of Govt yoke. Make the Govt yoke too apparent you force common people to look other avenues. Make govt control clandestine - people will figure eventually but shall be not sure to eschew platform. Case in American Social media. After Snowden - how many eschewed Social media in America?

 

[ezsasa]

Govt machinery... If you are asking about last line.

anything that is linked to gormint, will be impacted by prevailing political winds.

if the next gormint wants to expand the role of foreign social media company as a favour for bringing them into power, there is nothing govt machinery can do. and conversely if govt machinery does not want something to be done, there is nothing political leadership can do about it.

anyways, as @altruistRor said we have reached point of no return on social media. for now we can only try and manage consequences. if there is something happening on SM front, it is not on my radar.

 

[Anants]

anything that is linked to gormint, will be impacted by prevailing political winds.

if the next gormint wants to expand the role of foreign social media company as a favour for bringing them into power, there is nothing govt machinery can do. and conversely if govt machinery does not want something to be done, there is nothing political leadership can do about it.

anyways, as @altruistRor said we have reached point of no return on social media. for now we can only try and manage consequences. if there is something happening on SM front, it is not on my radar.

@ezsasa no social media is beyond point of reach once Govt knows and shows the intent. As of now SM is being impacted by prevailing political .. sorry geopolitical winds. OTOH You can always create checks and balances for misuse of internal SM by Govt machinery which allows actions to be checked by judiciary - which is becoming impossible to do it for external SM.

SM is flytrap. US just allows companies to spread sugar/honey on flytrap. Flies from world over just gladly sit on it. Create another similar flytrap anywhere (TikTok/VK) , flies shall sit there too. Make internal SM rules and enforcement adarsh reflection of your "ideals" - you choke it to death. This is the place where you need 3d or 4d thinking just like what China did wrt to TikTok (one for world and other for internal consumption)

 

[Vinod Patter]

Army was involved. Even protestors chopped had of a soldier in Murthal. Post that there was firings, officially killing 30. Rioters also looted army trucks in some remote regions.

Chopped head of a soldier ? Really ? This is too much man ..... Such anti national elements live among us in mainland India, beheading a soldier , I am flabbergasted.

 

[Cheepek]

UWMEED- i guess our bureaucrats love acronyms

उम्मीद

 

[ezsasa]

@ezsasa no social media is beyond point of reach once Govt knows and shows the intent. As of now SM is being impacted by prevailing political .. sorry geopolitical winds. OTOH You can always create checks and balances for misuse of internal SM by Govt machinery which allows actions to be checked by judiciary - which is becoming impossible for SM.

SM is flytrap. US just allows companies to spread sugar/honey on flytrap. Flies from world over just gladly sit on it. Create another similar flytrap anywhere (TikTok/VK) , flies shall sit there too. Make internal SM rules and enforcement adarsh reflection of your "ideals" - you choke it to death. This is the place where you need 3d or 4d thinking just like what China did wrt to TikTok (one for world and other for internal consumption)

govt got opportunity to control chinese influence, banned tiktok and other chini apps.

for western owned social media, it is like a chess game that is playing out. it is not the case that nothing has happened, IT act 2020 did happen which took public representation into consideration at that time into a law. now a broadcast services bill tabled in parliament few days back i think.

https://indianexpress.com/article/e...t-draft-services-bill-freedom-speech-9500124/

i am on SM detox, have you seen any of the govt's fanbase defending this bill vigorously, because by the looks of it the other side is ready with their counter narrative?

 

[Anants]

govt got opportunity to control chinese influence, banned tiktok and other chini apps.

for western owned social media, it is like a chess game that is playing out. it is not the case that nothing has happened, IT act 2020 did happen which took public representation into consideration at that time into a law. now a broadcast services bill tabled in parliament few days back i think.

https://indianexpress.com/article/e...t-draft-services-bill-freedom-speech-9500124/

i am on SM detox, have you seen any of the govt's fanbase defending this bill vigorously, because by the looks of it the other side is ready with their counter narrative?

None, but as I said if this is the stick.. internal SM outlets would have been the carrot. People need SM to keep their minds busy. If you dont provide they will hook onto something else.

Steps like above are half hearted attempts. Think ezsasa if Govt does not have its communication channel or medium what government can do. The problem of (anti establishment content promotion) is going to reoccur with every move it makes. And currently SM is promoting anti establishment accounts since pre 2024 elections.


To explain in hypothetical historical scenario: It just like in the era of Radio Channels, Govt still relying horseback riders to announce news and too show its moving with times, get foreign long wave radio stations to play few local songs and Sarkari message sometimes.

But above scenario did not happen. Every Govt went on to build their own radio stations for governance.

I am not sure why Gen Z era Govts(this is party agnostic) do not think longterm.

 

[Cheepek]

UWMEED- i guess our bureaucrats love acronyms

उम्मीद


View attachment 5669

Good act. Should pass legal scrutiny as well. The most contentious part would be introduction of non muslims in board, and no mandatory muslim as ceo of board- which the government can easily counter by giving example of temple boards.
Good for goose, good for gander.

 

[ezsasa]

None, but as I said if this is the stick.. internal SM outlets would have been the carrot. People need SM to keep their minds busy. If you dont provide they will hook onto something else.

Steps like above are half hearted attempts. Think ezsasa if Govt does not have its communication channel or medium what government it can give. This problem is going to reoccur with every move it makes. And currently SM is promoting anti establishment accounts since pre 2024 elections.


To explain in hypothetical historical scenario: It just like in the era of Radio Channels, Govt still relying horseback riders to announce news and too show its moving with times, get foreign long wave radio stations to play few local songs and Sarkari message sometimes.

But above scenario did not happen. Every Govt went on to build their own radio stations for governance.

I am not sure why Gen Z era Govts(this is party agnostic) do not think longterm.

can't have it both ways mate, if you want govt machinery to solve a particular problem, this is the natural course in democracy, there are very few scenarios where things happen at lighting speed, rest follow due process.

- public makes a demand
- public representatives asks bureaucracy to form a committee to officially collect public view.
- ministry asks law department to make a bill taking public and special interest group's views into consideration.
- a bill is drafted.
- the bill is again sent for public's representation, views are taken from stakeholders including the public.
- some views are incorporated, some are not.
- public representative table the bill in parliament, parliament may ask for the bill to be taken to standing committee. more changes may happen.
- lobbying happens within the parliament to get the bill passed into an act.
- during all this process, any time the effected parties(in this case social media) can use proxies can stall the process.
- if the bill is passed into an act, govt notifies the process thru gazette.
- the proxies, start lawfare in courts. govt defends their gazette rules in court. court may or may not agree with govt.
- if court does not give a favourable decision, process repeats via amendments or a new bill all together.

this whole process takes a few years.

if social media is the medium thru which this process is being observed, obviously their algorithms won't paint a picture that this process is moving in the right direction. one can only imagine how many psychologists and "political scientists" these companies have on their payroll, considering the prevailing globalist view seems to be that public are not supposed to dictating policies, they think populism is bad word.

google top search result.

Populism is a range of political stances that emphasize the idea of "the people" and often juxtapose this group with "the elite". It is frequently associated with anti-establishment and anti-political sentiment.

they have already declared that our opinions (public's opinion) are anti-establishment.

in effect, your frustration on regular process is par for the course for today's times. i get it, that you want govt to skip all this process. i have no explanation to convince you otherwise.

some of well meaning public spend lifetime getting one thing done, farm bill is an example. there was consensus built over three decades, yet it was only partially successful.

 

[Anants]

can't have it both ways mate, if you want govt machinery to solve a particular problem, this is the natural course in democracy, there are very few scenarios where things happen at lighting speed, rest follow due process.

- public makes a demand
- public representatives asks bureaucracy to form a committee to officially collect public view.
- ministry asks law department to make a bill taking public and special interest group's views into consideration.
- a bill is drafted.
- the bill is again sent for public's representation, views are taken from stakeholders including the public.
- some views are incorporated, some are not.
- bill is tabled, parliament may ask for the bill to be taken to standing committee. more changes may happen.
- lobbying happens within the parliament to get the bill passed into an act.
- during all this process, any time the effected parties(in this case social media) can use proxies can stall the process.
- if the bill is passed into an act, govt notifies the process thru gazette.
- the proxies, start lawfare in courts. govt defends their gazette rules in court. court may or may not agree with govt.
- if court does not give a favourable decision, process repeats via amendments or a new bill all together.

this whole process takes a few years.

if social media is the medium thru which this process is being observed, obviously their algorithms won't paint a picture that this process is moving in the right direction. one can only imagine how many psychologists and "political scientists" these companies have on their payroll, considering the prevailing globalist view seems to be that public are not supposed to dictating policies, they think populism is bad word.

google top search result.

Populism is a range of political stances that emphasize the idea of "the people" and often juxtapose this group with "the elite". It is frequently associated with anti-establishment and anti-political sentiment.

they have already declared that our opinions (public's opinion) are anti-establishment.

in effect, your frustration on regular process is par for the course for today's times. i get it, that you want govt to skip all this process. i have no explanation to convince your otherwise.

some of well meaning public spend lifetime getting one thing done, farm bill is an example. there was consensus built over three decades, yet it was only partially successful.

you got it all wrong what i was trying to say. What i have been saying laws are govt stick, an essential one which every serious govt in the world has. But if you really want vishwaguru limelight then you need to have your ecosystem. Govt cant build it, you need to nudge people to build, operate. Then support by adopting for communication channel. promote it with your soft power. manipulate it behind scenes for nations benefit. Aim is actively to temperate the narratives back and counter outside social engineering. If we think we cant control - these are the current times - then yeah all is lost then, we have to sit aback - twiddle thumbs. Farm Bill became Frankenstein because of Modii's blue eyed Social Media platform - whatsapp. Had it been hike - would not Indian Govt been aware of the "public"<sarcastic> sentiment trend? Could they not have devised counter media content to arrest cascade of emotions? Farm Bill agitation was fanned by outside Social Media, funded by outside players. If Govt keeps on loosing control of narratives - what can lamenting later achieve

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

The converse is also, at the first sign of push back, 56DD will roll it back. When comic book followers block the streets and start riots, hriday samrat goes MIA. I truly believe he had nothing to do with 2002 Guj riots. It was the aam gujju who for a change went medieval on the peacefuls.

Everybody knows this, he will rollback the laws and will let someone of junior rank like Anurag Thakur come and say "India was on the verge of attacks by foreign guided internal enemies", the irony is that all know who they are but still this government will go and peddle to them, them, who hate this government to the core.

 

[ezsasa]

you got it all wrong what i was trying to say. What i have been saying laws are govt stick, an essential one which every serious govt in the world has. But if you really want vishwaguru limelight then you need to have your ecosystem. Govt cant build it, you need to nudge people to build, operate. Then support by adopting for communication channel. promote it with your soft power. manipulate it behind scenes for nations benefit. Aim is get the temperate the narratives back and counter outside social engineering. If we think we cant control - these are the current times - then yeah all is lost then, we have to sit aback - twiddle thumbs. Farm Bill became Frankenstein because of Modii's blue eyed Social Media platform - whatsapp. Had it been hike - would not Indian Govt been aware of the "public"<sarcastic> sentiment trend? Could they not have devised counter media content to arrest cascade of emotions? Farm Bill agitation was fanned by outside Social Media, funded by outside players. If Govt keeps on loosing control of narratives - what can lamenting later achieve

i have already factored in that they are not coming back at current progression, because of these very reasons.

going forward i will try to reduce spending my time on connecting the dots as well, i am just hoping i can get some one interested in this forum who will keep track of boring small events that are happening on the ground, not just go with SM outrage cycles.

safe to assume, NDA is not coming back in 2029, if it survives that long in the first place.
it's been only two months in this term, but if they continue to not invest in soft power accounting for hostile social media platforms , law of diminishing returns will apply.