Indian Special Forces

[Screambowl]

Armour chahiye gaadiyon mai

abey tyre hi uda diya aur aag laga di gadi mein to armour ka kya karega? You need to detect enemy fire.

 

[rone]

Not that easy. Quadcopters will have difficulty keeping up, you'll have frequent loss of comms thanks to the ISM band that most of these start ups use, and there's too much foliage for drones to peer through even with the best LWIR gimbals.

Armour chahiye gaadiyon mai. And get some decent EO/IR turrets please.

The reason convey escort can't be carried out by quad copter type UAS is because their endurance and Imprticality to deploy in adverse weather conditions, above issues mostly iorned out in almost all military quads but issue persistent always is it's fly time, also in a urban area like jk how can a drone operator distinguish between cilivian and militants, the ambush sites all have decent civilian traffic, the current militants ambush success only because revamped OGW network sponsored by ISI nothing else,

 

[Screambowl]

how can a drone operator distinguish between cilivian and militants, the ambush sites all have decent civilian traffic, the current militants ambush success only because revamped OGW network sponsored by ISI nothing else,

With decent IR cam it can be detected even from 2000ft. Most causalities happen because you can't detect from where the fire is coming. In any case you need to give air cover to the convoys for enemy detection.

The point is just like 22 garhwal retaliated it saved many, you need to make this retaliation more accurate and lethal. That's all.

 

[Screambowl]

They fired 5100 bullets and a single bullet didnt hit a terrorist !!! Very hard to believe...

That's why they need IR equipped drones, to detect enemy. 22 Garhwal has show the way to avoid or minimize causality. It only needs improvisation.

 

[Screambowl]

dumb civilian govt who don't know much about modern warfare

If the men in military intelligence fail to detect incoming chinese mobilization in 2019 and also Doka La buildup, knowing so much about warfare, para this para that, a civilian govt will only ask its other agencies to produce report.

If due to ego problems, some men in uniform don't want to improvise, find new ways how to protect and give air cover to the convoy then civilian govt will have to find other ways of doing it. But it will happen.

 

[Waanar]

abey tyre hi uda diya aur aag laga di gadi mein to armour ka kya karega? You need to detect enemy fire.

The armor isn't for the soldiers to keep cozy while terrorists run around outside trying to find chinks in the armor.
Its to deny the initial advantage that inherently comes with the aggressor in the ambush so the troops can take a calculated risk, dismount (or push through) and return fire as appropriate.

An idiot with a molotov can set fire to a tank's vent and make the tank crew leave because of George Floyd syndrome.

 

[Binayak95]

abey tyre hi uda diya aur aag laga di gadi mein to armour ka kya karega? You need to detect enemy fire.

The armour is to buy the soldiers time to respond. nothing more. Any moron with a molotov cocktail can set the engine alight, does that make AFVs obsolete?

What argument are you even making?

 

[Binayak95]

The reason convey escort can't be carried out by quad copter type UAS is because their endurance and Imprticality to deploy in adverse weather conditions, above issues mostly iorned out in almost all military quads but issue persistent always is it's fly time, also in a urban area like jk how can a drone operator distinguish between cilivian and militants, the ambush sites all have decent civilian traffic, the current militants ambush success only because revamped OGW network sponsored by ISI nothing else,

Yeah, no - between SDE, IdeaForge, et al I have not seen any quad that demonstrably operates in the cluttered environment of urban warfare with dependable comms - especially when youre in a moving convoy. SDE tried it with tanks and mech inf - leveraging the same system that they use for navy - mixed results. They can land and take off fine from moving platforms, but comms? Pfft.

 

[Screambowl]

The armor isn't for the soldiers to keep cozy while terrorists run around outside trying to find chinks in the armor.

So you want them to expose themselves without knowing from where the fire is coming and retaliate indiscriminately just on trees and stones?

No argument can deny that you need air cover.

An idiot with a molotov can set fire to a tank's vent and make the tank crew leave because of George Floyd syndrome.

Thank fully the terrorist haven't brought suicide drones along themselves but they will surely improvise before you do due to your lethargic mind set.

phir se yahan rudali naach karna jab kuch ho jayega.

 

[Jedi Operator]

Reorganization of Army Special Forces and making them small and effective

Special Forces Regiment

• 9 battalion
• 10 battalion
• 1 battalion
• 21 battalion

National Guard Special Forces (Similar to US Army’s National Guard Green Beret units who will operate within US Soil if need be)

• 4 Para SF – Kashmir (CI/CT ops)
• 11 Para SF – North East (CI/CT ops)

Special Forces Operations Enablers

• 2 Para SF – similar to US Army Asymmetric Warfare Group https://www.americanspecialops.com/asymmetric-warfare-group/
• 12 Para SF – similar to US Army Special Reaction Team https://www.americanspecialops.com/special-reaction-team/

Parachute Regiment

• 5th Para Battalion
• 6th Para battalion
• 7th Para battalion
• 23rd Para battalion
• 29 Para battalion

Marine Corps Unit

13 Para SF be converted to something like Marine Recon battalion, since diving is not a compulsory training for Marine Recons and in Para SF also very few are trained divers, we have already seen 13 Para in countless exercises in Andaman so they could be similar to Marine Recons who slither, by boat or parajump on a beach and give landing pre-requisites to regular amphibious units while MARCOS will do it’s own job of beach recce and combat swimmer capabilities, over the beach assaults etc.

Additional Recommendations

• Create a unit like SFSG of the UK, where people from Parachute regiment could go on deputation for 2-3 years. Since the deputation program has worked in SFF, SG and NSG so it can work for SFSG too, thus people from Parachute regiment who want to be SF and don’t want to volunteer for SF Regiment away from their own battalion will be sent to SFSG then come back, the same way it happens in UK
• Probations can be in battalions, however after that, all four battalions of SF Regiment will go to SFTS, Bakloh to do 6 months of additional training, similar to US SEAL’s SQT
  
  
  What say @Arad Operator @Noob @Binayak95 @DumbPilot @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR ??

 

[Screambowl]

The armour is to buy the soldiers time to respond. nothing more. Any moron with a molotov cocktail can set the engine alight, does that make AFVs obsolete?

What argument are you even making?

Time to respond? Where? If you don't know the location where the tangos are how will you respond?

you will have to come out of the burning AFV just to get killed in open air.

 

[Screambowl]

but comms? Pfft.

If comms are the problem then every country should stop using drones. And follow elite members of DFB that drones can't be deployed.

 

[Binayak95]

Time to respond? Where? If you don't know the location where the tangos are how will you respond?

you will have to come out of the burning AFV just to get killed in open air.

If comms are the problem then every country should stop using drones. And follow elite members of DFB that drones can't be deployed.

ahh youre that kinda member.
Ignored.

 

[Binayak95]

Reorganization of Army Special Forces and making them small and effective

Special Forces Regiment

• 9 battalion
• 10 battalion
• 1 battalion
• 21 battalion

National Guard Special Forces (Similar to US Army’s National Guard Green Beret units who will operate within US Soil if need be)

• 4 Para SF – Kashmir (CI/CT ops)
• 11 Para SF – North East (CI/CT ops)

Special Forces Operations Enablers

• 2 Para SF – similar to US Army Asymmetric Warfare Group https://www.americanspecialops.com/asymmetric-warfare-group/
• 12 Para SF – similar to US Army Special Reaction Team https://www.americanspecialops.com/special-reaction-team/

Parachute Regiment

• 5th Para Battalion
• 6th Para battalion
• 7th Para battalion
• 23rd Para battalion
• 29 Para battalion

Marine Corps Unit

13 Para SF be converted to something like Marine Recon battalion, since diving is not a compulsory training for Marine Recons and in Para SF also very few are trained divers, we have already seen 13 Para in countless exercises in Andaman so they could be similar to Marine Recons who slither, by boat or parajump on a beach and give landing pre-requisites to regular amphibious units while MARCOS will do it’s own job of beach recce and combat swimmer capabilities, over the beach assaults etc.

Additional Recommendations

• Create a unit like SFSG of the UK, where people from Parachute regiment could go on deputation for 2-3 years. Since the deputation program has worked in SFF, SG and NSG so it can work for SFSG too, thus people from Parachute regiment who want to be SF and don’t want to volunteer for SF Regiment away from their own battalion will be sent to SFSG then come back, the same way it happens in UK
• Probations can be in battalions, however after that, all four battalions of SF Regiment will go to SFTS, Bakloh to do 6 months of additional training, similar to US SEAL’s SQT
  
  
  What say @Arad Operator @Noob @Binayak95 @DumbPilot @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR ??

Wheres our army of Northern Virginia/ISA? (tongue in cheek argument)


Isnt the SG already SFSG alike? Why create a redundancy?
I like the specialisation that our SFs undertake - as per their AO - but I'll admit it introduces an element of inflexibility and costs at the army level - so perhaps more generic SF units are required but i feel overwhelmingly underqualified to even opine on that subject.

 

[Screambowl]

ahh youre that kinda member.
Ignored.

when you don't have answer due to ego problem then you should better ignore.

 

[Screambowl]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/367126667_Review_on_Finding_Enemy_Target_using_Drones

Here a valuable document for those egoistic people who know nothing about drones. And don't want improvisation in how security forces operate.

is because their endurance and Imprticality to deploy in adverse weather conditions,

the drone's dual-
spectrum thermal imaging camera can operate in total
darkness. without any outside lighting, in the dark, and
when there is moisture from rain or fog. The drone uses
RFID technology to distinguish between local military
personnel and outsiders. This article will detect enemy
targets and assess their geographic locations using image
processing techniques and GPS technology. Three
processing units are utilized to regulate the operations
of the proposed application. The first process uses
thermal camera pictures and digital images to detect
opponents nearby, and the second process employs
RFID tags to distinguish enemies from friendly troops.
Then in the third stage, the enemy's geolocation was
obtained using GPS technology in order to pinpoint
their location, capture them, and launch an attack.
Additionally, opponent identification was done using
shape algorithms


For storing the geometrical shape of
weapons for detection, researchers submit input pictures.
The system compares the shape of fresh input images to a
prepared database to identify the particular weapon. Using
yolov3 algorithms will make it simpler to identify a human
carrying a weapon. The FLIR Image Dataset, which is open
source and offered by FLIR Systems, was used to compile
the thermal images. The Darknet YOLO v4 Spatial Pooling
Object Identification Technique, a CNN-based system that
can identify even the smallest photographed objects, is used
to allow Human detection in these selected photos. This
results in an accuracy for individuals recognition of around
0.794. The sample picture findings after categorization are
displayed in the photographs below. The person has been
surrounded by blue rectangles. This technique was created
by Google Colab and Thermal Images



...........

 

[Airborne22]

With decent IR cam it can be detected even from 2000ft. Most causalities happen because you can't detect from where the fire is coming. In any case you need to give air cover to the convoys for enemy detection.

The point is just like 22 garhwal retaliated it saved many, you need to make this retaliation more accurate and lethal. That's all.

There are better options than IR cams that are very weather-enciornment dependent. We can have acoustic devices that can give a general direction/bearing of the incoming fire. @mods move this discussion to the relevant thread please.

 

[rone]

Yeah, no - between SDE, IdeaForge, et al I have not seen any quad that demonstrably operates in the cluttered environment of urban warfare with dependable comms - especially when youre in a moving convoy. SDE tried it with tanks and mech inf - leveraging the same system that they use for navy - mixed results. They can land and take off fine from moving platforms, but comms? Pfft.

True, I still remember 5 or 6 years back there was a Brian storming done about same issue ( convoy protection using small UAS systems) every one suggested different type of multi copter systems including hybrid quad copter, the issue always come down to it's multiple driving motors always too energy inefficienct, the only solution which can be used or utilized with remote possibility was helicopter type UAS with gasoline engine, which prticaly equallent deploying light scout heli for convoy protection which already done in us Army and Marines, about the data link and coms there was a solution recommended by Israel origin which uses FHSS to avoid interference and jamming, the transmission can be in digital form and higher frequency ranges, even with all these suggestions currently in market only Anduril Ghost made available ( with 80% expected recommendations 200% above price cap) but it is used as long endurance small area persistent surveillance system for Marines ( yes even US Army get bottle necked)

 

[Screambowl]

here are better options than IR cams that are very weather-enciornment dependent. We can have acoustic devices that can give a general direction/bearing of the incoming fire.

In mountain region it can cause errors due to echo from mountains. This requires to be combined with IR for more accurate detection, both visual and acoustics.

 

[Airborne22]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/367126667_Review_on_Finding_Enemy_Target_using_Drones

Here a valuable document for those egoistic people who know nothing about drones. And don't want improvisation in how security forces operate.




the drone's dual-
spectrum thermal imaging camera can operate in total
darkness. without any outside lighting, in the dark, and
when there is moisture from rain or fog. The drone uses
RFID technology to distinguish between local military
personnel and outsiders. This article will detect enemy
targets and assess their geographic locations using image
processing techniques and GPS technology. Three
processing units are utilized to regulate the operations
of the proposed application. The first process uses
thermal camera pictures and digital images to detect
opponents nearby, and the second process employs
RFID tags to distinguish enemies from friendly troops.
Then in the third stage, the enemy's geolocation was
obtained using GPS technology in order to pinpoint
their location, capture them, and launch an attack.
Additionally, opponent identification was done using
shape algorithms


For storing the geometrical shape of
weapons for detection, researchers submit input pictures.
The system compares the shape of fresh input images to a
prepared database to identify the particular weapon. Using
yolov3 algorithms will make it simpler to identify a human
carrying a weapon. The FLIR Image Dataset, which is open
source and offered by FLIR Systems, was used to compile
the thermal images. The Darknet YOLO v4 Spatial Pooling
Object Identification Technique, a CNN-based system that
can identify even the smallest photographed objects, is used
to allow Human detection in these selected photos. This
results in an accuracy for individuals recognition of around
0.794. The sample picture findings after categorization are
displayed in the photographs below. The person has been
surrounded by blue rectangles. This technique was created
by Google Colab and Thermal Images



...........

We can discuss about deterrents all day, Kal ko they'll bring in Anti-UAS measures, what will we do then ? bring in heavy armoured vehicles? they'll bring in high yielding IEDs to stop these behemoths and then engage the troops at close range with their current tactics i.e usage of armour piercing bullets. IF you're wondering how they'll bring it in, don't worry, they already have a lot of this stuff at their disposal. It's just a matter of time they'll start implementation of this stuff.