LCA TEJAS MK-I & MK-IA: News and Discussion

[Asmodeus]

look tejas mark 1a 83 aircraft is going to deliver near 2030 (coz its 1-2 year late from its delivery timeline of 2029). so if we make deal of additional 97 tejas mark 1a, they will going to start delivering only after 2030-31.

that 2029 can be shortnened to 2027 with 32jets/year(4 assembly lines) if 97 more are ordered, economics of scale kinda thing.
anything below 28-29 sqauds is red alert. open invitation to things like pathankot.
2 sqads of 5th gen? we don't have that kind of money, should never happen, will cost you more than arm and a leg + compromises everything from strats to maps to comms to fututre jets(cannot trust anyone other than India)

 

[ArjunMK1A]

I read HAL's max is delivering 42 Mig-21 Bis in a single year (forgot which)

MIG 21 at peak is 874 Unit for IAF. So HAL can deliver 42 aircraft per year. The production line ran for 15-20 years.

Now for 83 Tejas MK1A. HAL at present go for 8 per year meaning 10 years to deliver 83 planes. If we order extra 97. Then 83+97 = 180 aircraft.

Now 18-20 aircraft per year can be done.

Remember at the end of day HAL needs to run the production at its optimum level. If they overcooked, then they will run out of jets to produce. This will result in idle workers, idle suppliers. Similar to the Submarine line, MDL got the extension of 3 subs retaining the supply base and skilled workers.

Question is end of day, If IAF or MOD gave an plan of procurement for next decade, then HAL can overdeliver. Otherwise there is problem.

For that Tejas MK2, AMCA prototype should come out in proper timeline with min delay.

 

[Gandaberunda]

look tejas mark 1a 83 aircraft is going to deliver near 2030 (coz its 1-2 year late from its delivery timeline of 2029). so if we make deal of additional 97 tejas mark 1a, they will going to start delivering only after 2030-31. if that time we make deal of delivering 24 tejas mark 1a per year....or even 30 aircraft per year. our production line will be busy untill 2033-34. so u can get tejas mark 2 only after 2033-34. i dont think u suggest 4.5 genration fighter (tejas mark 2) induction after 2040. coz 200+ tejas mark 2 will take 7-8 year to deliver.

tejas mark 1a nd tejas mark 2 will not that huge cost difference. if we look tejas mark 2 specs, its far better than tejas mark 1a. i mean near or below par rafale capabilities. i think deploying 150 tejas mark 2 in pakistan border is far better than 180 tejas mark 1a. we hv already 40+83=123 tejas mark 1 nd 1a , which is good number. beside this if we compare:-
1:- tejas mark 2 will hv MAWS.
2:- tejas mark 2 will hv 11 hardpoint. tejas mark 1a hv 8 hardpoint.
3:- tejas mark 2 will hv 6000 kg weapon payload. compaire to 4500 kg of tejas mark 1a.
4:- tejas mark 2 will hv infrared sensor.
5:- may be tejas mark 2 use GAN based uttam aesa radar.
6:- tejas mark 2 will hv better thrust to weight ratio engine.
7:- tejas mark 2 can carry more missiles like brahmos ng, BVR, rudram series, SAAW etc.

You think IAF doesn’t know the capabilities of MK1A and MK2 and what role they play in highly contested Airspace? IAF desperately need fighters and so they are going with repeat orders for MK1A knowing the present order will be completed beyond 2030. The fighters are inducted based on enemy strengths and MK1A in numbers is enough for Pakistan JF17s. If we are going to import 5th gen aircraft’s then MK1As will play crucial role in operating cost. We fight based on the doctrine and IAF needs Mig 21 replacement which is MK1A.
MK2 will replace Mirage/Jaguars and also will be work horse for IAF in future despite having 5th gen fighters. Both MK1A and MK2 will be inducted in numbers as front line jets.

 

[Gandaberunda]

People saying curtail MK1A orders and go for MK2 have no idea about engine deal not finalised yet for MK2. The 99 F414 engine deal is stuck (price negotiation) and MK1A engines got delayed by 2 years still GE will only deliver 8 this year and increase production to 20 next year. No matter how many production lines HAL open with no engines supply in numbers they can’t deliver aircraft’s.
HAL is pushing for private players assembly by offering manufacturing plant to private players to speed up MK2 production but biggest hindrance is American ENGINES supply.

 

[TopWatcher]

People saying curtail MK1A orders and go for MK2 have no idea about engine deal not finalised yet for MK2. The 99 F414 engine deal is stuck (price negotiation) and MK1A engines got delayed by 2 years still GE will only deliver 8 this year and increase production to 20 next year. No matter how many production lines HAL open with no engines supply in numbers they can’t deliver aircraft’s.
HAL is pushing for private players assembly by offering manufacturing plant to private players to speed up MK2 production but biggest hindrance is American ENGINES supply.

Unless we dont have our engine, we really cant make made in India aircrafts.

I dont know why we go to Americans, we can put strategic alliance with France or Russians (more reliable)

Its a sabotage.

 

[Asmodeus]

Why this has just 4k views??


View: https://youtu.be/vlacB0-e5QQ?si=LPuWoW8IwDeyzxOx

 

[shade2]

People saying curtail MK1A orders and go for MK2 have no idea about engine deal not finalised yet for MK2. The 99 F414 engine deal is stuck (price negotiation) and MK1A engines got delayed by 2 years still GE will only deliver 8 this year and increase production to 20 next year. No matter how many production lines HAL open with no engines supply in numbers they can’t deliver aircraft’s.
HAL is pushing for private players assembly by offering manufacturing plant to private players to speed up MK2 production but biggest hindrance is American ENGINES supply.

Unless we dont have our engine, we really cant make made in India aircrafts.

I dont know why we go to Americans, we can put strategic alliance with France or Russians (more reliable)

Its a sabotage.

They will cancel Tejas Mk1a and Mk2 and bulk order that F16 rebrand LM is hawking since many years

Import Bahadurs happy
Dalal Patrakars happy
Dalal Babooze happy
Suit-Boot Specialists happy
Congress also happy because it's their master's product
Gobi somewhat happy because America will be off his back without any cooked up assassination scandals and sanctions threats

I am saying this because America has us by the balls anyway over the GE engines, If we were serious there would be already a program in place to mod atleast Mk2 to fit M88 or AL31FP/RD33 engines from France or Roos, since there isn't, I assume this is a fixed match to order F16

 

[Gandaberunda]

They will cancel Tejas Mk1a and Mk2 and bulk order that F16 rebrand LM is hawking since many years

Import Bahadurs happy
Dalal Patrakars happy
Dalal Babooze happy
Suit-Boot Specialists happy
Congress also happy because it's their master's product
Gobi somewhat happy because America will be off his back without any cooked up assassination scandals and sanctions threats

I am saying this because America has us by the balls anyway over the GE engines, If we were serious there would be already a program in place to mod atleast Mk2 to fit M88 or AL31FP/RD33 engines from France or Roos, since there isn't, I assume this is a fixed match to order F16

F16 is rejected long back itself IAF said it’s obsolete and agreed for Mk1A/MK2 because it’s 4.5 gen aircraft’s. Trump has us balls but we can pay him by importing F35s strykers apaches chinooks M777 P8i sea guardian drones MTA tender can go to C130J and also lowering tariffs on goods but won’t go for obsolete rebranded F21 which LM is pushing for with Tata.
Also we should have taken than snecma hot core offer and integrated with our Kaveri and built engines for MK1A production while trying to mature our own Kaveri hot core. If lunatic democrats come back after 4 years and our defence procurement are filled with American then we are royally fucked

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

People saying curtail MK1A orders and go for MK2 have no idea about engine deal not finalised yet for MK2. The 99 F414 engine deal is stuck (price negotiation) and MK1A engines got delayed by 2 years still GE will only deliver 8 this year and increase production to 20 next year. No matter how many production lines HAL open with no engines supply in numbers they can’t deliver aircraft’s.
HAL is pushing for private players assembly by offering manufacturing plant to private players to speed up MK2 production but biggest hindrance is American ENGINES supply.

no...we r discussing to not order additional 97 tejas mark 1a..."only" if tejas mark 2 is ready for induction near 2030. if tejas mark 2 will not ready for induction untill 2030, than we hv to go for additional 97 tejas mark1a. we hv than no other choice, except procuring additional su 30 mki. which isnt a good move.
now airforce didnt final their thoughts of procuring 97 additional tejas mark 1a yet. if they finalize that deal, than we hv no point to discuss to buy tejas mark 1a or tejas mark 2. coz we r in situation, where any additional fighter numbers is "capacity building or strengthening" for IAF.

 

[AbRaj]

Why this has just 4k views??


View: https://youtu.be/vlacB0-e5QQ?si=LPuWoW8IwDeyzxOx

quality of video- God level
quality of smoke winders- potty level

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

F16 is rejected long back itself IAF said it’s obsolete and agreed for Mk1A/MK2 because it’s 4.5 gen aircraft’s. Trump has us balls but we can pay him by importing F35s strykers apaches chinooks M777 P8i sea guardian drones MTA tender can go to C130J and also lowering tariffs on goods but won’t go for obsolete rebranded F21 which LM is pushing for with Tata.
Also we should have taken than snecma hot core offer and integrated with our Kaveri and built engines for MK1A production while trying to mature our own Kaveri hot core. If lunatic democrats come back after 4 years and our defence procurement are filled with American then we are royally fucked

u should be honest....f16 (block 70) or f21 r not obsolete fighters. they r near gripin e capabilities. thats why taiwan still buying them. in 2024 lockhead deliver 16 F16 (block 70) to behrain nd Slovakia.

"Over the past two years, Lockheed Martin has delivered a total of 21 serial production F-16 Block 70/72 aircraft. The company currently has contracts for an additional 167 units, including a recently confirmed order from Turkey for 40 jets, finalised under a Letter of Offer and Acceptance (LOA) in 2024".

Lockheed Martin delivers 16 F-16 Block 70 fighters in 2024, with orders rising toward 200 units

Lockheed Martin has announced the delivery of 16 F-16C/D Fighting Falcon Block 70 aircraft in 2024, marking an increase from the five aircraft delivered in 2023.

defence-industry.eu

now in india case, we r not prefering f16 or f21,,,, coz we hv our own tejas mark 1a nd tejas mark 2 project. if we buy f16/f21,,,that will directly effect our desi programs. which hv near f16 capabilities.

 

[shade2]

F16 is rejected long back itself IAF said it’s obsolete and agreed for Mk1A/MK2 because it’s 4.5 gen aircraft’s. Trump has us balls but we can pay him by importing F35s strykers apaches chinooks M777 P8i sea guardian drones MTA tender can go to C130J and also lowering tariffs on goods but won’t go for obsolete rebranded F21 which LM is pushing for with Tata.
Also we should have taken than snecma hot core offer and integrated with our Kaveri and built engines for MK1A production while trying to mature our own Kaveri hot core. If lunatic democrats come back after 4 years and our defence procurement are filled with American then we are royally fucked

It's less obsolete and more of "the pakis already have it" and some kind of anti-US front line combat platform mindset among the forces.

How long this based mindset holds now remains to be seen, Stryker is already breaking in, who knows what else may follow.

As for F16 technologies I don't give a shit how good it may be, but it will 100% kill Tejas mk1a and MWF if it's ever inducted even in small numbers, aside from my undying hatred for those perfidious Americ*nts.

 

[silentassassin265]

F16 is rejected long back itself IAF said it’s obsolete and agreed for Mk1A/MK2 because it’s 4.5 gen aircraft’s. Trump has us balls but we can pay him by importing F35s strykers apaches chinooks M777 P8i sea guardian drones MTA tender can go to C130J and also lowering tariffs on goods but won’t go for obsolete rebranded F21 which LM is pushing for with Tata.
Also we should have taken than snecma hot core offer and integrated with our Kaveri and built engines for MK1A production while trying to mature our own Kaveri hot core. If lunatic democrats come back after 4 years and our defence procurement are filled with American then we are royally fucked

IAF chose mk1a and mk2 simply because they had no choice as lots of money was spent on LCA development and government was not backing down.
Now as a revenge they have grounded all dhruv helicopters fleet and going to purchase airbus helis ending the indigenous program for helicopters.

 

[Gandaberunda]

u should be honest....f16 (block 70) or f21 r not obsolete fighters. they r near gripin e capabilities. thats why taiwan still buying them. in 2024 lockhead deliver 16 F16 (block 70) to behrain nd Slovakia.

"Over the past two years, Lockheed Martin has delivered a total of 21 serial production F-16 Block 70/72 aircraft. The company currently has contracts for an additional 167 units, including a recently confirmed order from Turkey for 40 jets, finalised under a Letter of Offer and Acceptance (LOA) in 2024".

Lockheed Martin delivers 16 F-16 Block 70 fighters in 2024, with orders rising toward 200 units

Lockheed Martin has announced the delivery of 16 F-16C/D Fighting Falcon Block 70 aircraft in 2024, marking an increase from the five aircraft delivered in 2023.

defence-industry.eu

now in india case, we r not prefering f16 or f21,,,, coz we hv our own tejas mark 1a nd tejas mark 2 project. if we buy f16/f21,,,that will directly effect our desi programs. which hv near f16 capabilities.

F16 was obsolete back then in 2008 when IAF evaluated and rejected it and Tejas was no were near IAF but in HAL hangers as tec demonstrator. Tiny countries Bahrain Slovakia aren’t the standards for IAF to look up to. Turkey is a nato member and went for F16s because of F35 debacle. No matter how much blocks of F16 America builds it’s a 3rd gen fighter and airframe is decades old can’t be considered as 4th gen also IAF won’t go for the aircraft which our rivals operating from decades.
Now IAF has trusted Tejas so Tejas iterations MK1 MK1A and MK2 will be the main single engine fighters. MRFA could go for F35 in limited numbers 2-4 squadrons that’s it

 

[Gandaberunda]

no...we r discussing to not order additional 97 tejas mark 1a..."only" if tejas mark 2 is ready for induction near 2030. if tejas mark 2 will not ready for induction untill 2030, than we hv to go for additional 97 tejas mark1a. we hv than no other choice, except procuring additional su 30 mki. which isnt a good move.
now airforce didnt final their thoughts of procuring 97 additional tejas mark 1a yet. if they finalize that deal, than we hv no point to discuss to buy tejas mark 1a or tejas mark 2. coz we r in situation, where any additional fighter numbers is "capacity building or strengthening" for IAF.

Why should IAF not order additional 97 MK1A?
MK1A is LCA and Mig 21 replacement.
MK2 is Mid weight fighter and will replace Mig -29k mirage 2000
Is that hard to understand ?

 

[AbRaj]

F16 was obsolete back then in 2008 when IAF evaluated and rejected it and Tejas was no were near IAF but in HAL hangers as tec demonstrator.

If it were up to iAF, they would not have touched it by a pole. It was MODs decision. LCA was supposed to be abandoned in favour of MMRCA of which F16 was a part as per the IAF requirements. Its just that the competition has better jets to offer although at much higher cost. That’s why there is punny 38 Rafale bought.

Tiny countries Bahrain Slovakia aren’t the standards for IAF to look up to.

True iAF is in league of its own. That’s why its famous not as a fighting force, but a zoo of legacy post WW2 era jets like Mig21/23/29, Jaguars, Mirages,Su29/30 etc. Its best and latest fighter is a fourth gen overpriced French import, that too in numbers you can count on your fingers.
BTW iAF is same organisation literally begging to similar small countries like Greece,UAE,Qatar,France, UK to give them their retired and much more older jets, either to maintain its dwindling squadron strength or to cannibalise it for spare parts.

Turkey is a nato member and went for F16s because of F35 debacle. No matter how much blocks of F16 America builds it’s a 3rd gen fighter and airframe is decades old can’t be considered as 4th gen

You should have told that to Abhinandan .

also IAF won’t go for the aircraft which our rivals operating from decades.

And thats the reason its not in IAF colours. Otherwise, read interview of any IAF pilot and the common opinion they hold about PAF F16

Now IAF has trusted Tejas

 

[vampyrbladez]

View: https://x.com/writetake/status/1894744890661331394

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

Why should IAF not order additional 97 MK1A?
MK1A is LCA and Mig 21 replacement.
MK2 is Mid weight fighter and will replace Mig -29k mirage 2000
Is that hard to understand ?

dude i already give u timeline...so last time think about it:-
1:- 83 tejas mark 1a will deliver - 2030-31. coz its already get 1+ year delayed from previous 2029 timeline due to engine.
2:- than if u order 97 tejas mark 1a...that will take atleast 3 year, if we deliver at 30 aircraft per year production rate. that make their induction time line untill 2034.
3:- than u will order 200+ tejas mark 2....that order will take atleast 6-7 year to complete by 32 aircraft per year production rate. so we r inducting a 4.5 genration aircraft beyond 2040. that is a problem. coz we hv to start retiring our first batch of su 30 mki from 2042. we cant replace them with tejas mark 2. we should make a single engine medium weight 5 genration (just like su75) to replace su 30 mki.

we hv to only retire 1-2 squad of mig 21 now. for that we already order 40 tejas mark 1 nd 83 tejas mark 1a....how many more u need?
tejas mark 1a is near 14000 kg weight light fighter aircraft...meanwhile tejas mark 2 will be near 18000 kg weight category. it still a light weight category. real medium weight fighters like f35, rafale etc weight goes near 25000-30000 kg. 19000 kg weight F16 nd 16500 kg gripin e is consider light weight fighters.

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

F16 was obsolete back then in 2008 when IAF evaluated and rejected it and Tejas was no were near IAF but in HAL hangers as tec demonstrator. Tiny countries Bahrain Slovakia aren’t the standards for IAF to look up to. Turkey is a nato member and went for F16s because of F35 debacle. No matter how much blocks of F16 America builds it’s a 3rd gen fighter and airframe is decades old can’t be considered as 4th gen also IAF won’t go for the aircraft which our rivals operating from decades.
Now IAF has trusted Tejas so Tejas iterations MK1 MK1A and MK2 will be the main single engine fighters. MRFA could go for F35 in limited numbers 2-4 squadrons that’s it

by that logic F15 nd F18 is also consider 3.5 genration according to u,,,coz they also build near 1980's.