AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

wingmen...the large internal bay with 2 extra side bays does not make any large difference.
That is a very good theory and countries like USA and China are more or less working on that concept but there's just one hiccup in it

The current iteration of CATS Warrior don't have an IWB big enough to carry air-to-air missile; just SDBs

View: https://x.com/smitharanganath/status/1889214179174683006?s=19
(was the choice of this specific Tweet intentional? May be)
 
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Bruh. F-22 which enters service in 97 period can carry six in iwb and 2 in swb.

Total 8 mizziles. Coming in 2032 we will have AMCA with just 4 Astra mk3 is joke.

Atleast 6 is benchmark. But we should go for 8 with (6 BVR and 2 WVR).

Otherwise cats warrior max with htfe engine can do the same job if we want 4 mizziles.
F-22 which enters service in 97 period can carry six in iwb and 2 in swb.
Amca should carry 2 more wvr, but Not a good comparison as f22 is more of a heavy fighter while amca is medium.
Total 8 mizziles. Coming in 2032 we will have AMCA with just 4 Astra mk3 is joke
That would be hard to achieve.
6 is still realistic, plus CCA/CATS will be there to support it.
Otherwise cats warrior max with htfe engine can do the same job if we want 4 mizziles.
So far the payload for cats warrior are saaw and wvr missile.
There is not mention of a BVR missile in its payload, unsure if BVR can fit in its smaller IWB, probably external BVR carry possible.
 
on good ol' D F I it was mentioned that very first 'technical demonstrators', that are now catching dust in HAL's museum in Bangalore, either KH2001 or KH2002, one of them was actually ground-tested and air intakes certified with russian RD-33 as an alternative engine in hand IF unkil sam doesn't let us have F404 - but it's all tales from those era when Kaveri was already being hailed as mainstay for LCA

eventually US of A allowed F404 to us and that thing of perhaps putting RD-33 on LCA was shut off 🤷‍♂️ if only it wasn't...we could've perhaps gotten a good fleet of Tejas flying with that engine, no matter how questionable its performance be
So, true..... Our Babus thought Americans won't arm twist LCA program by harassing us with the availability of engines.
 
That is a very good theory and countries like USA and China are more or less working on that concept but there's just one hiccup in it

The current iteration of CATS Warrior don't have an IWB big enough to carry air-to-air missile; just SDBs

View: https://x.com/smitharanganath/status/1889214179174683006?s=19
(was the choice of this specific Tweet intentional? May be)

Amca should carry 2 more wvr, but Not a good comparison as f22 is more of a heavy fighter while amca is medium.

That would be hard to achieve.
6 is still realistic, plus CCA/CATS will be there to support it.

So far the payload for cats warrior are saaw and wvr missile.
There is not mention of a BVR missile in its payload, unsure if BVR can fit in its smaller IWB, probably external BVR carry possible.
The CATS Warrior is just one of the many CCAs being designed. The Warrior would in all likelihood be a CCA to the current fleet of FAs being developed / in service.

I believe the AMCA Mk-2 will have something much more sophisticated . We had talk of the FUFA sometime back . It'd probably be realised after CATS Warrior .

Similarly I wouldn't fret too much on the lack of SWBs or IWB on board the Mk-1. The definitive version of the AMCA as of now is the Mk-2 .

A good deal of tech which will go into it will be realised on the Mk-1 but surely not all the tech would be realised on the latter for otherwise why would we have the Mk-2 ?

We work with the information we have in hand which is in the public domain & very limited in its scope . The experts be they in the IAF or ADA are the ones with full knowledge of the true requirements & would design the Aircraft accordingly. Let's not second guess them .

At some point in time you have to trust their judgement for they're the experts not you & me irrespective our knowledge , which is the reason we're here & they're where they are.
 
At some point in time you have to trust their judgement for they're the experts not you & me irrespective our knowledge , which is the reason we're here & they're where they are.
What happened to you my Guy?
You used to be rational, covering every aspect of something and now suddenly this weird boomer tone! You're just a couple steps away from saying "have you seen SSB gate?"
 
In the latest Indigenization Appreciation Hour with Saurav Jha, it was hinted that a large weapons bay was not a priority due to the changing nature of the battlefield. Now we have a more integrated battle arena, wingmen, etc and since no system is standalone, the large internal bay with 2 extra side bays does not make any large difference.
There are numerous bloggers, vloggers, journalists. I try to listen to as many as my time permits.
Mr. Saurav Jha was smiling:) & made following overconfident,💪 1-sided :first:assumptions -
- AMCA will work in silent mode (but will enemy be in broadcast mode? :doh:)
- AMCA will fire BVR-AAMs & never require CCMs, so SWB not required.:doh:
- AMCA won't encounter enemy steath jet WVR.:facepalm4:
So,
- Enemy countermeasures won't work?:facepalm2:
- Enemy won't use BFM tactics or won't work?:facepalm2:
- Astr BVR-AAMs cannot miss targets?:facepalm4:

> Integrated/Networked battle picture with LOAL-AAMs improves situational awareness & flexibility of who looks & who shoots, but overall & individual firepower has to be maintained. The 5gen philosophy is already sneaking & pack-hunting.

> Missile tech improve on offence side, countermeasures & tactics improve on defence side.
Sword Vs Shield⚔️🛡️, Cat Vs Mouse, Tom vs Jerry 🐱🐭

> We wan't our jets & UCAVs to attack, succeed & survive & the enemy would do same. This means more shots required by both sides in BVR & WVR.🤷‍♂️

> Once weapons are depleted, the air asset becomes defenceless & dependent for protection.

> Some of us are glorifying our 4.5gen jets based on composites, MLUed components from 5gen, but arrogantly under-estimating enemy's not only 4.5gen but also 5/6gen. So, we wan't our Rafale, Su-30MKI, LCA, MWF, TEDBF, Mirage-200, MiG-29 to succeed but enemy's jets will be cola cans :facepalm2::ROFLMAO:

This is why i repeat "Focus on technology directy instead of who says what"
 
Amca should carry 2 more wvr, but Not a good comparison as f22 is more of a heavy fighter while amca is medium.

That would be hard to achieve.
6 is still realistic, plus CCA/CATS will be there to support it.

8 AAMs with SWB is hard to achieve but not impossible. Words like hard, complex, etc are part of engineering.
If a soldier is given pistol & MG with magazine's 50-70% capacity, is it fine? :wtf::wtfcat::facepalm4::doh::facepalm2::fyeah::gtfo::ROFLMAO: So it is not about comparing with other jet but having sufficient weapons considering countermeasures & tactics.
Brutal bitter truth: We have gone for LCA, MWF, AMCA only bcoz of lack of bigger, better engines by self/import.🤷‍♂️ PAKFA-FGFA didn't work. No AHCA RFI/RFP yet.


Since WW era the size of light/medium/heavy aircraft change as per era, technology, maker. We consider MWF as Medium but USA considers F-16 as light.

For stealth jets with IWB there is no ideal/realistic ISO standard for % of components by weight - structure, engines, equipments, fuel, weapons.
Many people might think that stealth jets might be carrying 10/15/20% weapons internally by weight.
F-22 empty structure weight + equipments = 15.16 tons
2x engines = 4.54 tons
internal fuel = 8.2 tons
6 BVR-AAMs + 2 CCMs = 1.1 tons
STOW = 29 tons
MTOW = 38 tons
Remaining external load = 9 tons
So F-22 carries 1.1/29 = just 3.8% 🤏:oops::shocked: AAMs internally by weight. Doesn't this look astonishing?:wtfcat::wtf:

F-22's SWB was designed for big-fin AIM-9 Sidewinder whose latest version has redesigned short fins.

1739796947358.webp
1739796208759.webp

Now MLU may not be possible to have 2 staggered AIM-9X in each SWB.

Some future jet may have 2 staggered short-fin CCMs or BVR-AAMs or even 4 VSR-CCMs in each SWB. 🤷‍♂️:noidea:
F/A-XX is speculated to have that, which is a naval jet BTW, you know what i mean.;)
1739794639949.webp

With more stronger 200 Kn class engines, it is still being speculated that manned NGAD PCA might have combo of 12/14/16 AAMs (VLR, LR, SR, VSR) in tandem &/or parallel IWBs + SWBs, with many fan made CADs.
 

View: https://youtu.be/Opyt_wlJ3A8?si=4S5m2Q2UAqvNhsbs



Yep ..In India things move this fast and in next 2 days we will have flying F35 with India specific changes ..
 
There are numerous bloggers, vloggers, journalists. I try to listen to as many as my time permits.
Mr. Saurav Jha was smiling:) & made following overconfident,💪 1-sided :first:assumptions -
- AMCA will work in silent mode (but will enemy be in broadcast mode? :doh:)
- AMCA will fire BVR-AAMs & never require CCMs, so SWB not required.:doh:
- AMCA won't encounter enemy steath jet WVR.:facepalm4:
So,
- Enemy countermeasures won't work?:facepalm2:
- Enemy won't use BFM tactics or won't work?:facepalm2:
- Astr BVR-AAMs cannot miss targets?:facepalm4:

> Integrated/Networked battle picture with LOAL-AAMs improves situational awareness & flexibility of who looks & who shoots, but overall & individual firepower has to be maintained. The 5gen philosophy is already sneaking & pack-hunting.

> Missile tech improve on offence side, countermeasures & tactics improve on defence side.
Sword Vs Shield⚔️🛡️, Cat Vs Mouse, Tom vs Jerry 🐱🐭

> We wan't our jets & UCAVs to attack, succeed & survive & the enemy would do same. This means more shots required by both sides in BVR & WVR.🤷‍♂️

> Once weapons are depleted, the air asset becomes defenceless & dependent for protection.

> Some of us are glorifying our 4.5gen jets based on composites, MLUed components from 5gen, but arrogantly under-estimating enemy's not only 4.5gen but also 5/6gen. So, we wan't our Rafale, Su-30MKI, LCA, MWF, TEDBF, Mirage-200, MiG-29 to succeed but enemy's jets will be cola cans :facepalm2::ROFLMAO:

This is why i repeat "Focus on technology directy instead of who says what"
Actually the problem of Indian AERO designers is that they are over-exaggerating the battle situation... Someone needs to talk with these designers that BASIC BATTLEFIELD REQUIREMENT OF MISSILES will never be compensated by other platforms like wingman.... MINIMUM OF 6 HARD-POINTS inside IWB is absolutely necessary, along with that 2 side bays can be accommodated for small WVR missiles....the MAIN PROBLEM IS BABUS( IAS ) who are incharge of the organisation can't enforce these requirements on AERO DESIGNERS because They have specialisation/ degree/ interest in HISTORY/GEOGRAPHY/POLITY/SOCIOLOGY and NOT ON MODERN MILITARY DEVELOPMENT & NEW AGE INNOVATIONS which are happening all around the world....WE NEED A STRONG PROTEST AGAINST THIS BABU-CULTURE, OTHERWISE IT'LL DESTROY Us Oneday...and WE, the public of India, ARE GLORIFYING THESE BABUS IN SOCIAL MEDIA, INSTITUTIONS, HOME, SCHOOLS, COLLEGES everywhere....WE ARE SHAMELESS PEOPLE
 
Actually the problem of Indian AERO designers is that they are over-exaggerating the battle situation... Someone needs to talk with these designers that BASIC BATTLEFIELD REQUIREMENT OF MISSILES will never be compensated by other platforms like wingman.... MINIMUM OF 6 HARD-POINTS inside IWB is absolutely necessary, along with that 2 side bays can be accommodated for small WVR missiles....the MAIN PROBLEM IS BABUS( IAS ) who are incharge of the organisation can't enforce these requirements on AERO DESIGNERS because They have specialisation/ degree/ interest in HISTORY/GEOGRAPHY/POLITY/SOCIOLOGY and NOT ON MODERN MILITARY DEVELOPMENT & NEW AGE INNOVATIONS which are happening all around the world....WE NEED A STRONG PROTEST AGAINST THIS BABU-CULTURE, OTHERWISE IT'LL DESTROY Us Oneday...and WE, the public of India, ARE GLORIFYING THESE BABUS IN SOCIAL MEDIA, INSTITUTIONS, HOME, SCHOOLS, COLLEGES everywhere....WE ARE SHAMELESS PEOPLE
What is the max number of air to air missiles fired by a single jet in a war action the last 40 years ?
 
Fact is that tejas does not have bvr till now , Astra is not cleared , the track record of indian drdo hal...is not good ,
So forces are not , believing , better they go for a fifth gen fighter ...then the magical no 36 not gonna help , paf might get more nos of j35
And as we know they got j10 c in one year .....so it's better to get those f35 s ,,, is it possible to get some old , f22s in lower price , or 50+ old f16s to maintain squardon
 
Fact is that tejas does not have bvr till now , Astra is not cleared , the track record of indian drdo hal...is not good ,
So forces are not , believing , better they go for a fifth gen fighter ...then the magical no 36 not gonna help , paf might get more nos of j35
And as we know they got j10 c in one year .....so it's better to get those f35 s ,,, is it possible to get some old , f22s in lower price , or 50+ old f16s to maintain squardon
No shot we're getting F-22, also tejas does have BVR, its Astra mk1, missile isn't the issue here, delivery of tejas is. buying F-16 is dumb and you're here asking to buy old F-16 which is straight up comedy. buying america jets in-general is a huge headache, we can't use our own missile and bombs on it.
 
What is the max number of air to air missiles fired by a single jet in a war action the last 40 years ?
Very interesting question. But whatever be the fact, it didn't stop any of the makers to keep their jets prepared for max A-A config.:LOL:
 
Gj930AmXYAASdB7

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-monitoring-clauses/articleshow/118308940.cms
 
J20- 4 bvr, 2wvr
F35- 4bvr & With side kick adapter 6bvr or 4bvr,2wvr
F22-4bvr, 2wvr
Su 57- 6bvr, 2wvr

Future Amca-4bvr.
I meant beast mode by max AA config, 4.5gen jets included for last 40 years.
 

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