CI/CT Operations

spadex said:
Search op was going on based on int (prob a bait by terrorists)-> soldiers took the old route (used by Gujjars) to navigate the Jungle (anticipated by terrorists) -> terrorists have int about the no of soldiers their weapons profile and id of soldiers -> they hit the senior most soldiers, point man and commanding officer of the squad left the less expensive soldiers in panic -> took weapon mutilation records and vanished
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How can someone leave their jco to be beheaded? Not downgrading them but I remember 48 rr ke ambush meh bhi trucks se utar ke bhage the, while the gypsy guys got butchered.
 
Baseplate said:
this is what happens when u don't train your men in combined arms live fire drills on ground .

They panic when thigs go rapid and that's the end . God , this is the situation when they don't even have LMGs .
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Some of us talk about it in dms about this because if we make this point people are gonna call us desh drohi..then everyone from fauji kids to ex faujis and twitter experts will come join the party.

This has happened many times in the last 15 years.

This is not a healthy sign of infantry..this should have been Chinese standard not a volunteer Army standard.
 
COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:
Some of us talk about it in dms about this because if we make this point people are gonna call us desh drohi..then everyone from fauji kids to ex faujis and twitter experts will come join the party.

This has happened many times in the last 15 years.

This is not a healthy sign of infantry..this should have been Chinese standard not a volunteer Army standard.
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Yup this has happened since a long time now
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VictorDelta4 said:
Yup this has happened since a long time now
View attachment 9751
View attachment 9752
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Officer lead Army.

Its ok our education system is that way but what is preventing in officers grooming the jawans.

Officers dont care it seems....everything in fauj is a display well and hide the dirt situation.

People used to swear by the training and bravery of Indian Infantry but Jammu is proving otherwise.

Time is still there..Rise o Indian Army!
 
IWIarad11 said:
How can someone leave their jco to be beheaded? Not downgrading them but I remember 48 rr ke ambush meh bhi trucks se utar ke bhage the, while the gypsy guys got butchered.
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This reaction is expected from fresh non battle hardened troops , once they have some combat experience they will start pumping round instead of running .
But we can't always depend upon such engagements to give our men battle experience and exposure that's where large scale combined arms live fire drills come in .

One of the main reason why USMC is such lethal is coz they do it extensively and thus are very squared away when it comes to SOPs , leadership and reacting to various scenarios , But i am still waiting to see our men try out something even remotely similar .
 
COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:
People used to swear by the training and bravery of Indian Infantry but Jammu is proving otherwise.
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Lack of proper SOP, exposure to only CASO ops in peace time, barely any combined arms exposure, training system failure and plenty more has weakened the infantry to such an extent that if there was a large scale conflict right now, the casualties will be higher in the initial days before they even get a chance to retreat and regroup!
 
It's like a mini kargil happening. How many soldiers died out of 500 allocated for jungle operation??

It's like a army having a problem in jungle.
 
Baseplate said:
This reaction is expected from fresh non battle hardened troops , once they have some combat experience they will start pumping round instead of running .
But we can't always depend upon such engagements to give our men battle experience and exposure that's where large scale combined arms live fire drills come in .

One of the main reason why USMC is such lethal is coz they do it extensively and thus are very squared away when it comes to SOPs , leadership and reacting to various scenarios , But i am still waiting to see our men try out something even remotely similar .
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I was thinking about it a few years ago and i was like wont RR exposure solve this but no

Reason

RR does only one kind of op and that is the op of excessive manpower.

Sorrounding 2 terrorists with 200 people doesnt make them learn anything and in the end they use the RL that finishes the encounter.

Thatswhy we havent learnt or invented anything in 30 years.

We have to change our training and sops really soon..young officers cant be cannon fodder everytime.
 
TopWatcher said:
It's like a mini kargil happening. How many soldiers died out of 500 allocated for jungle operation??

It's like a army having a problem in jungle.
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500 allocated was a battalion strength of para sf for jammu division.

To answer your question, none so far!

All the 4-5 sf operatives that were kia was in kashmir.
 
Screambowl said:
During 26/11 Marcos intervention the grenade lobbed by Parveen teotia didn't explode and his buddy left him when the retaliation fire came. That led to the prolonged operation in Taj.
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His buddy left him? Don't remember reading that in the book.
 
IWIarad11 said:
How can someone leave their jco to be beheaded? Not downgrading them but I remember 48 rr ke ambush meh bhi trucks se utar ke bhage the, while the gypsy guys got butchered.
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They didn't run away. Combat isn't hollywood or bollywood. Soldiers are humans. From what I saw in the video there was only one soldier who got hit and was trying to retreat.
 
Baseplate said:
This reaction is expected from fresh non battle hardened troops , once they have some combat experience they will start pumping round instead of running .
But we can't always depend upon such engagements to give our men battle experience and exposure that's where large scale combined arms live fire drills come in .

One of the main reason why USMC is such lethal is coz they do it extensively and thus are very squared away when it comes to SOPs , leadership and reacting to various scenarios , But i am still waiting to see our men try out something even remotely similar .
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Jesus christ Indians and their obsession with comparing everything to America.
 
COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:
I was thinking about it a few years ago and i was like wont RR exposure solve this but no

Reason

RR does only one kind of op and that is the op of excessive manpower.

Sorrounding 2 terrorists with 200 people doesnt make them learn anything and in the end they use the RL that finishes the encounter.

Thatswhy we havent learnt or invented anything in 30 years.

We have to change our training and sops really soon..young officers cant be cannon fodder everytime.
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Yes that is true but we need to look at context here. These operations are designed to ensure that no one escapes. 200 is the entire cordon but only 6 soldiers go in to raid the house, if they get hit and there are no civilians they bring the house down, if they fail to initially hit the militants, or if there are civilians they withdraw and work up a plan.

I think the SOP is fine but I would instead like to see more training in Urban Combat amongst the QRTs, with more modern CQB tactics utilized as well as better convoy protection and counter ambush drills.
 
KumaoniReborn said:
Post source or delete this post.
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From DFI
1726606644653.webp
defenceforumindia.com

The Kargil War

Lt Gen KTParnaik said as he paid tributes to the officers and soldiers who gave their supreme sacrifice in the war.Photo:Rediff.com — Nation Remembers Kargil War Heroes. (4 photos) General Officer Commanding-in-Chief of Army's Northern Command Lt Gen K T Parnaik at the ceremony
defenceforumindia.com defenceforumindia.com
 
TopWatcher said:
It's like a mini kargil happening. How many soldiers died out of 500 allocated for jungle operation??

It's like a army having a problem in jungle.
Click to expand...
No wonder Indian defense enthusiasts aren't taken seriously, respectfully. We have zero idea about our conflicts. Majority of us have zero clue and do not read any books or interact with veterans or watch their interviews, like lets say american users. The average american defense talk is filled to the brim with past stories of war and excerpts from books.

Kargil was a localized infantry conflict that was limited to one location which had the main purpose of tying down Indian forces to give respite to the hard-pressed insurgents who suffered back-to-back losses in 1998, as well as revenge for Siachen. What is going on right now is an escalation of the Kashmir insurgency which happened in the mid 90s, only that the ISI is keeping it small and pesky, so India does not have any motto try any cross LoC activities.
 
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