DRDO and PSU's

Vishnugupt said:
If Apache is not useful in Himalay then why it was brought at first place?? What the use of it massive, ultramodern, super duper power when you can't use it at need???
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usefulness of apache is not just about bang bang.

while at this point in time, we don't know if this particular grounded apache had longbow or not. but we do know that apache longbow has been deployed in ladakh from news reports.

one radar sweep, and long bow maps out hundreds of targets in vicinity, these targets are relayed to other apaches. in our case, i don't know if mapped targets can be transferred to ground units.

product description of longbow FCR from OEM.
=====

Longbow's Primary Combat Targeting Modes​

The FCR's primary combat targeting modes include Ground Target Mode (GTM), Air Targeting Mode (ATM), and a new Maritime Targeting Mode (MTM) for the AH-64E. These modes provide rapid detection to engagement timelines. The FCR performs wide area search, precise detection, location and classification of up to 256 simultaneous moving and stationary targets. From these, the system then prioritizes the top 16 targets for immediate evaluation and, if desired, engagement by the aircrew. This system enables the potent Apache attack helicopter to prosecute targets day or night, in adverse weather and obscured conditions.

Additional modes include Terrain Profile Mode, which significantly aids aircrew situational awareness to avoid terrain and large obstacles under degraded environments, including weather and battlefield conditions; and Target Location Cueing to the Apache's Modernized Target Acquisition Designation System (MTADS) for positive target identification.

In addition to the new Maritime Targeting Mode, other significant advanced capabilities provided to the AH-64E include: Doubling target detection ranges from the original 8 km to 16 km (4X increased detection volume) - further extending crucial situational awareness; 360 degree surveillance and single target track across land, air and sea missions and improved detection of smaller unmanned aerial vehicles.

1727419926577.png

1727420246008.png

apache with Longbow deployed in ladakh
1727419977039.png
 
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DumbPilot said:
especially the rest of our aircraft systems are westernized. Now that we have experience with ELBIT DASH and the Rafale HMDS, maybe in the future we will have better systems of our own
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We are really slow with indigenizing the equipments of foreign purchased stuff. We are always trying to re-invent the wheel in order to become self reliant and bash Chinese on copying the stuff from Russians and making their own version.
But see their progress, they initially copied the stuff but later came up with updates which are often better and more up to date then Russians themselves.​
 
SKC said:
We are really slow with indigenizing the equipments of foreign purchased stuff. We are always trying to re-invent the wheel in order to become self reliant and bash Chinese on copying the stuff from Russians and making their own version.
But see their progress, they initially copied the stuff but later came up with updates which are often better and more up to date then Russians themselves.​
Click to expand...
There is no problem in Copying small system like small arms and electronics and optics on bigger things like aircraft, tanks innovation is needed and important
Copying sub component is not bad its good in long term
 
ezsasa said:
usefulness of apache is not just about bang bang.

while at this point in time, we don't know if this particular grounded apache had longbow or not. but we do know that apache longbow has been deployed in ladakh from news reports.

one radar sweep, and long bow maps out hundreds of targets in vicinity, these targets are relayed to other apaches. in our case, i don't know if mapped targets can be transferred to ground units.

product description of longbow FCR from OEM.
=====

Longbow's Primary Combat Targeting Modes​

The FCR's primary combat targeting modes include Ground Target Mode (GTM), Air Targeting Mode (ATM), and a new Maritime Targeting Mode (MTM) for the AH-64E. These modes provide rapid detection to engagement timelines. The FCR performs wide area search, precise detection, location and classification of up to 256 simultaneous moving and stationary targets. From these, the system then prioritizes the top 16 targets for immediate evaluation and, if desired, engagement by the aircrew. This system enables the potent Apache attack helicopter to prosecute targets day or night, in adverse weather and obscured conditions.

Additional modes include Terrain Profile Mode, which significantly aids aircrew situational awareness to avoid terrain and large obstacles under degraded environments, including weather and battlefield conditions; and Target Location Cueing to the Apache's Modernized Target Acquisition Designation System (MTADS) for positive target identification.

In addition to the new Maritime Targeting Mode, other significant advanced capabilities provided to the AH-64E include: Doubling target detection ranges from the original 8 km to 16 km (4X increased detection volume) - further extending crucial situational awareness; 360 degree surveillance and single target track across land, air and sea missions and improved detection of smaller unmanned aerial vehicles.

View attachment 10573

View attachment 10576

apache with Longbow deployed in ladakh
View attachment 10574
Click to expand...

So no other substitute for area scanning?? We spent 3 billion for scanning??
 
Vishnugupt said:
So no other substitute for area scanning?? We spent 3 billion for scanning??
Click to expand...
Go through what he has written

In short, currently there isn't a single helicopter in active service that can pop above a ridge line, fire a salvo of 16 ATGMs without even looking, turn around as soon as possible and guide each one of them to different target all while doing evasive maneuvers.

On the contrary most attack helicopters need to keep hovering until the ATGM hits its target. And then repeat it for each ATGM. Even in best case scenario a Ka-52 would need to hover for 2 minutes to engage 8 targets at a distance of 8km. And this can result in something like this

View: https://x.com/UAWeapons/status/1511292509619568640?s=19
 
Vishnugupt said:
So no other substitute for area scanning?? We spent 3 billion for scanning??
Click to expand...

AN/APG-78 is unique, there is no other such heli mounted system as far as i know.

one peak above the ridge/tree line, acquire a hundred ground targets within seconds without WSOs in other apaches having to break cover, identify and prioritise targets, and ability to send dozens of hellfires from multiple apaches in different directions. yes, it is a capability worth having for 14000 crores. that 3 billion number included chinook as well.

if we accept the premise that warfare is all about having the edge over the adversary, it is definitely worth it.

anyways deal was signed in 2015, we are in 2024 now. don't be that uncle who keeps sulking about some marriage dinner you didn't like from 10 years ago. :ROFLMAO:

chini are also developing a similar system, what will you do if we didn't have it and they show up with such a capability on our door step ?
 
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ezsasa said:
AN/APG-78 is unique, there is no other such heli mounted system as far as i know.

one peak above the ridge/tree line, acquire a hundred ground targets within seconds without WSOs in other apaches having to break cover, identify and prioritise targets, and ability to send dozens of hellfires from multiple apaches in different directions. yes, it is a capability worth having for 14000 crores. that 3 billion number included chinook as well.

if we accept the premise that warfare is all about having the edge over the adversary, it is definitely worth it.

anyways deal was signed in 2015, we are in 2024 now. don't be that uncle who keeps sulking about some marriage dinner you didn't like from 10 years ago. :ROFLMAO:

chini are also developing a similar system, what will you do if we didn't have it and they show up with such a capability on our door step ?
Click to expand...
You missed the whole point.
But it is not suitable in Himalay but you still counting on it.
 
Pundit Pikachu said:
Answer - Protests, like they always do, it was a fuck*ng miracle Modi even managed to corporatise and break OFB into smaller companies in the first place.

As for what would happen next, govt will slowly reduce their workforce and size but keep them afloat because not having a govt controlled ammo production agency is something GoI will never accept
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Essential Defence Services Bill, 2021, passed by the Parliament.

Essential defence services: Essential defence services include any service in: (i) any establishment or undertaking dealing with production of goods or equipment required for defence related purposes, or (ii) any establishment of the armed forces or connected with them or defence.

Key features of the Bill​

  1. Scope of essential defence services– The government chose to define the term ‘essential defence services’ in such a way so as to enable wide import with respect to interpretation and applicability. Hence, any service even remotely involved in providing goods and equipment to the military or connected with the latter is included. Additionally, the government also conferred upon itself the right to declare any establishment as essential defence services if the cessation of its activities would affect the production, repair and maintenance of defence goods as well as the operation or maintenance of the industries involved in the production.
  2. Public utility services – The Bill adds essential defence services to the public utility services enlisted in the Industrial Disputes Act, 1947, making it mandatory for employees in the former to give in a six-week notice if they plan to go on a strike or do lock-outs in breach of the contract.
  3. Prohibition– The Bill defines strikes as cessation of work by a body of persons acting together. The same is elaborated further as-
    • Mass casual leave
    • Coordinated refusal to accept employment or work, including working overtime, where such work is essential for the smooth continuance of defence services
    • Any other conduct leading to the disruption of the functioning of defence services.
The government can pass a prohibition order for strikes, lock-outs or lay-offs in the interest of the sovereignty and integrity of India, security of any state, public order, decency, and morality. Apart from the first three reasons, however, it is unclear how the rest are related to the military interests of the country.

This order will remain in force for six months, and may be extended to another six months.

  1. Punishment– Employees engaging in illegal strikes, lock-outs and lay-offs while the order is in force will be punished with up to one year of imprisonment, a Rs. 10,000 fine, or both. People facilitating such strikes through monetary support or inciting or instigating them will be punished with up to two years of imprisonment, a Rs. 15,000 fine, or both.
Lastly, all these offences will be cognisable and non-bailable.
 
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