Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[705-Lira]

I believe think tank already knew about this situation 3-4 years back ..maybe that was the reason to purchase S400 knowing it would cause strain in relationship with umrica.
Nothing is lost as of yet as long we have plan and we work on it
Tejas Mk1 will be hired in number which will at least fill gaps in our defensive capabilities. That along with S400 and Kusha should be able to shield us

Problem is with our offensive capabilities.. that will take about a decade to replenish.. Mk2 and Amca is on paper and computer
MRFA is also like a carrot , don't see it materializing in near future unless umrican do something unexpected .

Tejas Mk2 is definitely not on paper, there are many SOWs to prove that.

 

[angryindian]

When you only concentrate on AMCA after you dump the FGFA program with the Russians, this is what you get.

SU 57,on which the FGFA was to be developed is a questionable 5th gen fighter, dumping it was the best thing to do, otherwise the Russians would have looted billions of dollars from India for a substandard aircraft.

 

[Suryavanshi]

still better then anything we have and will have in next 10 years.If china sells this to porkistan we will start begging for f35 from US.

That is a given, anything India builds or procures Pakistan must also match it by a certain ratio.

I believe we will see j 35 in hands of porkies this very decade.

 

[Ayan Barat]

When you only concentrate on AMCA after you dump the FGFA program with the Russians, this is what you get.

Ummnn...it may sound bit of an overstretch but we've surpassed Russia in almost all of the defence arenas except just one or two in terms of technology. Not even two, just engine core I'd say.

So despite being just on paper and without proper engines the AMCA still feels bit better than Su-57. We're going with multi-faceted EOTS as compared to the typical "ball" on Sukhoi which can act as a Luneburg lens on its own. The geometric stealth seems better. Not to mention that Su-57 wasted a huge potential of having perhaps the best weapon bay of any stealth fighter by dividing it in two sections; if there had been no bulkhead in between then it might have been capable of carrying longer missiles like even BrahMos, something which is an inherent problem with all stealth jets from F-22 to J-20.

Heck I even am a strong believer that we wasted $5 billion dollars on S-400. There was no eminent threat of war, we might had gotten our hands on F-35 or atleast few of its technologies for AMCA, S-400s have shown a sketchy performance (and even if not then a local production line of SAM would always have better magazine depth against saturated attack than an imported one with a couple hundred missiles)...but perhaps the saddest of all, we bought S-400 despite knowing that Kusha was just around the corner.

 

[angryindian]

That is a given, anything India builds or procures Pakistan must also match it by a certain ratio.

I believe we will see j 35 in hands of porkies this very decade.

Pakistani media reports that Pakistani pilots have already begun training on the J-31 . Analysts believe the PAF will receive the first batch by 2027-28.

It's both disturbing and disheartening to see that despite having an economy 11 times larger than Pakistan's, India still doesn't have a clear technological or quantitative advantage over it. For reference, China's economy is five times the size of India's but the gap between the two militaries is massive.

 

[shade2]

Never understood why we stopped at just 36 rafales.
Clearly if anything 72+ should have been ideal numbers would have been the thematic successor of Mirages.

I guess the Rafale corruption scandal was the reason gov backed off from the project.

Really?

x2, x2, x1,x1 and x1
View attachment 14262
A bloody civilian's humble question to IAF, HAL, MoD, ADA and all the other stakeholders of AMCA in the most polite manner...

...Kab Khoon Khaulega Re Tera!?

IAF wants imported maal, HAL doesn't want to work and doesn't have the budget anyway, and as for the GoI....



"Today is not an Era of War"

 

[shade2]

Pakistani media reports that Pakistani pilots have already begun training on the J-31 . Analysts believe the PAF will receive the first batch by 2027-28.

It's both disturbing and disheartening to see that despite having an economy 11 times larger than Pakistan's, India still doesn't have a clear technological or quantitative advantage over it. For reference, China's economy is five times the size of India's but the gap between the two militaries is massive.

A difference of mindset between Pakjabi fauj, PLA/CCP and our Gandhian nation and politicians



"Today is not an era of war"

 

[shade2]

Is 114 fighter jet tender necessary for IAF? First ask what price India is willing to pay

If budget constraints and Rafale’s price tag are a concern, the Swedish Gripen offers a compelling, cost-effective alternative.

theprint.in

meanwhile here's an article by Yusuf from DFI about how 114 jets MRFA tender restart is absolutely retarded and how GOI should go for G2G negotiations with France to build 114 Rafales in India, or if cost is an issue buy Gripens instead.

Full agreement with him on the Rafales but not on Gripens, Tejas mk2 is sem2sem so why give money to Swedes?

I'm surprised he didn't shill for the F-16 or the other F'ers in the MRCA, used to assume him to be an America-premi but after recent Pannu-Nijjer happenings perhaps he has had a change of heart?

 

[shade2]

Sorry that's deflecting the blame. IAF very well knew that India's coffers could not simply afford the expensive Rafales and should have known or taken the hint to heart and plan for cheaper alternatives. But no, it doubled down on Rafales or nothing, daring GoI in a game of chicken. Well, it turned out that it didn't work and India as a whole loses.

Look at PAF. PAF knew that it could not afford pricey planes so it made the best out of its situation and look where it is now. A viable 4th gen fighter force able to keep IAF on its toes on its own despite overwhelming numerical disadvantage.

IAF should have read the writing on the wall and double down on Tejas and Kaveri engine program and make provisions for temporary fixes while India gets Tejas and Kaveri program to the finish line and India would have its own domestic fighter industry fully capable of serving its needs. But no, IAF was too myopic and arrogant to allow that to happen. Not only that, but I dare say corrupted by greed and hubris.

No, IAF brass takes the blame fully and squarely on this one.

Now you are being silly.

Indonesia, UAE, and Egypt do not have a 1.4 billion population to feed, house, and nurse. India does. They do not have a 1.4 million man force which carries its own expenses. India do. They do not have two enemies and multiple fronts to fight against. India do.

It is a question of managing your limited resources and stretching it out far as you can. The more Rafales you buy, the less resources that other branches get such as submarine arm, surface ships, patrol planes, artillery, tanks, atgms, missiles, ammunition, drones, etc. The list goes on.

IAF was foolish to think that GoI would sacrifice other programs just to satisfy IAF's childish buffoonery demands for Rafales when IAF could have taken the Tejas program to completion and fulfil IAF's pressing needs without draining Indian coffers and at the same time, build a sustainable war industry that would serve India's needs for decades.

Yes, IAF is myopic and shortsighted and is full of buffoons.

IAF could be like the Navy that builds whatever ships it needs, they could have collaborated with HAL on the Tejas to have it meet their specs instead of back and forth but no, they don't care about the preparedness of their force, it is better to complain about SQUADRONS DECLINING SAAAAAAR for 15 years instead

OTOH you have the b*niya govt getting scared of some Italian mongrel barking SCAM SCAM SCAM over emergency procurement and unwilling to increase the defense budget huffing the copium of "Todeh ij Naat Dee Era Oph Waar"

Imagine we could have upgraded Su-30s, Rafales with all bells and whistles and 200 Tejas mk1a but we won't have any of that now except maybe the Su-30 upgrades, let's hope Russia doesn't collapse

 

[Ayan Barat]

HAL AMCA, AeroIndia-27

Pic by Deb Rana

 

[darkflame]

unknown Russian radar in Iran locks on F35
https://warriormaven.com/global-security/was-an-israeli-f-35-shot-down-by-iranian-radar

 

[shade2]

HAL AMCA, AeroIndia-27
View attachment 14639
Pic by Deb Rana

One Q, is producing just the airframe for stealth jet also some high tech process?
Like some special metal alloy or something?

Because Turkeys and Worst Koreans have airframes ready afaik, HAL by comparison hasn't even made a prototype yet?

 

[Ayan Barat]

One Q, is producing just the airframe for stealth jet also some high tech process?
Like some special metal alloy or something?

Because Turkeys and Worst Koreans have airframes ready afaik, HAL by comparison hasn't even made a prototype yet?

Ummnn...it's not that simple, but I'm getting what you're trying to say. The answer is both yes and no.

In terms of basic fuselage the AMCA won't be any different than a LCA except for two or three coatings. A specialized primer for RAM, the RAM itself and a top coat to keep weather away from the RAM. But the actual designing of it would be extremely difficult. Take any stealth aircraft, KAAN for example

See how all different surfaces try to stick to just two or three different angles; this is just on the macro level. On micro level all the small surfaces, every curvature, all protrusion try to follow this as much as possible. And the more stealthy a platform becomes the less aerodynamic it gets (see the example of F-117) and vice-versa. So now you're constantly at this tug of war between aerodynamics and RCS. And this thing is difficult.

Now coming to your question of why are we waiting for stealth tech to come up first instead of just moving forward with the technologically simpler parts then the answer is yes, we're trying our best.

View: https://x.com/HALHQBLR/status/1547164027062976513

But so much is there from releasing of funds to size of actual funds to uncertainties with engine...

 

[shade2]

Ummnn...it's not that simple, but I'm getting what you're trying to say. The answer is both yes and no.

In terms of basic fuselage the AMCA won't be any different than a LCA except for two or three coatings. A specialized primer for RAM, the RAM itself and a top coat to keep weather away from the RAM. But the actual designing of it would be extremely difficult. Take any stealth aircraft, KAAN for example
View attachment 14652
See how all different surfaces try to stick to just two or three different angles; this is just on the macro level. On micro level all the small surfaces, every curvature, all protrusion try to follow this as much as possible. And the more stealthy a platform becomes the less aerodynamic it gets (see the example of F-117) and vice-versa. So now you're constantly at this tug of war between aerodynamics and RCS. And this thing is difficult.

Now coming to your question of why are we waiting for stealth tech to come up first instead of just moving forward with the technologically simpler parts then the answer is yes, we're trying our best.

View: https://x.com/HALHQBLR/status/1547164027062976513

But so much is there from releasing of funds to size of actual funds to uncertainties with engine...

I really wish this foolish country increased the defense budget...

Turkeys are trying to build an atmanirbhar defense ecosystem from scratch, from being American #1 customer 10 years back, missiles, ships, planes everything, they are making good progress also, meanwhile we are stuck in development loop of programs that started much earlier :/

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

best decision for IAF should till 2040:-
1:- order 36 more rafale by GTG route, i know it will take 7-8 year to deliver first aircraft.
2:- order 12+ 36 more su 30 with upgraded specs. it can be build in india. so su 30 number goes to 300.
3:- make joint production deal with russia for 100 su 75. well its cheaper than su 57 but russia hv experience with 5 genration now. it should joint venture with any indian private player.
all experienced aircraft making countries face problems in their 5 genration aircraft, like cost (f22), production (su57), capability nd stealth (j20)...why we r 100% sure that our AMCA will be 100% successful 5 genration . so its better to hv two 5 genration program like we hv old time. one desi (AMCA) nd one vilayati (su 75).
5:- extra 77 tejas mark 1a,,,so its number reach to 40+83+77= 200.
6:- 200 tejas mark 2.
7:- 100 AMCA.
expensive but necessary steps.

 

[Spitfire IX]

I see in idrw today that the MOD has decided against the private sector building Tejas Mk2 and that HAL will build the Tejas Mk2. A couple of reasons cited: continuity of production and avoidable expenditure.

To me, the effect is

- to shield HAL production performance from comparison with another company's performance, so perpetuating poor performance - if its performance is comparatively poor. Nobody can know that.
- to prevent any other Indian production company becoming established with the know how to build modern fighters. That means no competition driving improvements.
- likely to delay Mk2 even further - HAL will not want to invest in expanding capacity to build Tejas Mk2 but will rather use Mk1A production facilities when they become available. If more Mk1A are ordered, Mk2 production may be pushed back by years.
- AMCA will have to be built at whatever cost and pace HAL chooses, since HAL will have no Indian competitor in a production tender.

Does anyone think that continuing the HAL monopoly is a stroke of genius by MOD?

 

[Suryavanshi]

I really wish this foolish country increased the defense budget..

Even if you put 100 liter fuel instead of 50 into a car with 50 year old engine, it would still underperform.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

View: https://x.com/chopsyturvey/status/1856007570780991907?s=46

 

[Anants]

View: https://x.com/chopsyturvey/status/1856007570780991907?s=46

Its late 90s and early 2000 back again

 

[Vishnugupt]

best decision for IAF should till 2040:-
1:- order 36 more rafale by GTG route, i know it will take 7-8 year to deliver first aircraft.
2:- order 12+ 36 more su 30 with upgraded specs. it can be build in india. so su 30 number goes to 300.
3:- make joint production deal with russia for 100 su 75. well its cheaper than su 57 but russia hv experience with 5 genration now. it should joint venture with any indian private player.
all experienced aircraft making countries face problems in their 5 genration aircraft, like cost (f22), production (su57), capability nd stealth (j20)...why we r 100% sure that our AMCA will be 100% successful 5 genration . so its better to hv two 5 genration program like we hv old time. one desi (AMCA) nd one vilayati (su 75).
5:- extra 77 tejas mark 1a,,,so its number reach to 40+83+77= 200.
6:- 200 tejas mark 2.
7:- 100 AMCA.
expensive but necessary steps.

(Not referring you)

Why people don't write 500 F-35, 200F-22and 2000 J -20.

Why not ordering intra Galactic alien fighter jets from a Andromeda galaxy??

Everyone on twitter or Defence forums blindly say just buy 1000000 Rafales under ToT/GtG

Solution for low squadron has been always there but Indian defence fans are stupid whereas UN Generals to notorious.