Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

Keep on getting new dates then, if you think anything will change in PSU it will not, now I not blaming the talent, most of the guys are very talented and will be swooped up by private industry but the culture in there is just not changing.

If you think TEJAS mk1 is just being delayed because of GE, then they are taking you for a ride, it’s one of the problems not the only problem.

Well of course all blame is not on PSU and there is user issues as well but you have to start from somewhere.

kickbacks are everywhere in some form or other you just need to equip Indian private industry enough to do that for generals to prefer them.

This is something no one will say openly but will end up happening
As I said before tejas is not being delayed just because of GE engine.

Keep blaming the airforce calling it an import airforce, but reality is quite different, we need a competitive system integrator from the private sector and should be on cost + profit bases like f35 contract

Let them build the same plane rather then allowing HAL to keep adding assembly lines.


View: https://youtu.be/CE1nIop1zFc?si=7plbywYgNA5ldJ4H
 
As I said before tejas is not being delayed just because of GE engine.

Keep blaming the airforce calling it an import airforce, but reality is quite different, we need a competitive system integrator from the private sector and should be on cost + profit bases like f35 contract

Let them build the same plane rather then allowing HAL to keep adding assembly lines.


View: https://youtu.be/CE1nIop1zFc?si=7plbywYgNA5ldJ4H

Hal does final assembly, lots of components including all the sections of fuselage are biult by "private"subcontractors of HAL
 
Can you help me to understand what does he means by Tejas MK1A can be called like that only by name and not my capability?
He talked about stuff with systems in the video, but not sure to understand everything... Is he talking about integration issue ? Like it's not a matter of hardware only but about integration and software ?
 
As I said before tejas is not being delayed just because of GE engine.

Keep blaming the airforce calling it an import airforce, but reality is quite different, we need a competitive system integrator from the private sector and should be on cost + profit bases like f35 contract

Let them build the same plane rather then allowing HAL to keep adding assembly lines.


View: https://youtu.be/CE1nIop1zFc?si=7plbywYgNA5ldJ4H


every time a new piece of information or news or scenario comes up, theoretical bulldozing the existing fundamentals can't be the premise of the discourse.

as things stands today, even private sector cannot fulfil air chief's delivery schedule, simply because a lot of things are happening in parallel. there are things happening literally for the first time that haven't happened before in this country. it would be stupid of any private company, to take up aircraft integration without the completion of design, integration and certification of all components and weapon systems.

let's see what happens with tata's C-295 integration, obviously we all want them to succeed. their success in that deal would mean the country will be one step closer to a private company taking up aircraft assembly/integration.

just like forces prefer "proven technologies", private companies prefer to bet on stabilised and proven business models because they have shareholders to answer to.

this is just the first decade of private companies getting to take on large contracts, let's not be hasty to assume we the fanboys know all the variables that are in play.
 
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This news has already made to the top headlines of major news sites. In coming days this IAF Vs HAL is only going to get messier with everyone from YouTubers to FanBois to Brats everyone jumping to it.

So, in case you want an unbiased opinion about who's really at faults for this Tejas debacle then consult this masterpiece of mine
 
Its time GoI get their head outta their asx and order Su-57. HAL can transition from Su-30 to FGFA production while we let ADA/DODO do their thing with private production partners and target a more manageable 2050+ introduction timeline for AMCA, just in time for LCA replacement. LMAO!!
 
every time a new piece of information or news or scenario comes up, theoretical bulldozing the existing fundamentals can't be the premise of the discourse.

as things stands today, even private sector cannot fulfil air chief's delivery schedule, simply because a lot of things are happening in parallel. there are things happening literally for the first time that haven't happened before in this country. it would be stupid of any private company, to take up aircraft integration without the completion of design, integration and certification of all components and weapon systems.

let's see what happens with tata's C-295 integration, obviously we all want them to succeed. their success in that deal would mean the country will be one step closer to a private company taking up aircraft assembly/integration.

just like forces prefer "proven technologies", private companies prefer to bet on stabilised and proven business models because they have shareholders to answer to.

this is just the first decade of private companies getting to take on large contracts, let's not be hasty to assume we the fanboys know all the variables that are in play.
Well I can tell right now it’s unfair you give psu 60 years to setup and still support them when they don’t deliver but use a different yard stick for private industry. Give them some time to mature they won’t take even 1\4 of the time.

If you are expecting private firms to put their own money, then it’s never gonna happen, we need private defence contractors before defence companies as of now.

We need our L3 Harris, Raytheon and Lockheed Martin before wishing for Anduril.

Why do you think mmrca airforce is keen on, getting fighter is one thing but the airforce solves one more issue that’s the monopoly of the HAL.

I believe in indigenous system as well but not the inefficiency.

C295 will progress well, as you said they have to respond to shareholders,

Read between the lines when airforce people talk about.
 
Well I can tell right now it’s unfair you give psu 60 years to setup and still support them when they don’t deliver but use a different yard stick for private industry. Give them some time to mature they won’t take even 1\4 of the time.

If you are expecting private firms to put their own money, then it’s never gonna happen, we need private defence contractors before defence companies as of now.

We need our L3 Harris, Raytheon and Lockheed Martin before wishing for Anduril.

Why do you think mmrca airforce is keen on, getting fighter is one thing but the airforce solves one more issue that’s the monopoly of the HAL.

I believe in indigenous system as well but not the inefficiency.

C295 will progress well, as you said they have to respond to shareholders,

Read between the lines when airforce people talk about.

lockheed is 100 years old
martin is 60+ years old
raytheon is 100+ years old
harris is 130 years old

they too had their share of ups and downs during this journey.

murica as a country became private first, before they went public. they got private toll roads, railways, and telephone companies before their govt even intervened.

India story is very different from murican story, for us everything is gormint first and private business story is just 30 years old. safe to say Indian solution to this problem will not be same as murica's giant defence contractors.

many of the folks who used to get angry when air India was being managed by gormint and talked as if privatisation will solve all the probems, are on radio silence after TATA's tookover and bad service is continuing. these things happen, not everything goes according to plan.

my point is simply this, just keep an open mind as to which way this industry will evolve. we have our entire lifetimes to cheer for a good outcome as spectators.
 
lockheed is 100 years old
martin is 60+ years old
raytheon is 100+ years old
harris is 130 years old

they too had their share of ups and downs during this journey.

murica as a country became private first, before they went public. they got private toll roads, railways, and telephone companies before their govt even intervened.

India story is very different from murican story, for us everything is gormint first and private business story is just 30 years old. safe to say Indian solution to this problem will not be same as murica's giant defence contractors.

many of the folks who used to get angry when air India was being managed by gormint and talked as if privatisation will solve all the probems, are on radio silence after TATA's tookover and bad service is continuing. these things happen, not everything goes according to plan.

my point is simply this, just keep an open mind as to which way this industry will evolve. we have our entire lifetimes to cheer for a good outcome as spectators.
Just to add my 2 cents , I'm unaware as to how many here have been involved with a new product launch right from conceptualization to realisation to marketing & creating new distribution / handling existing distribution networks to after sales service.

I've skipped a lot of steps in between but the best of cos who've spent a lifetime in this biz get things wrong & at times disastrously wrong. Don't believe me ? Look at the F-35 project.

As a French member in Strat Front put it , if France were to run it like the US did , France would impeach the President apart from guillotining a whole host of ministers bureaucracy & top generals before going bankrupt . It's a text book case of how not to run a project.

This is the first time HAL is involved in building a Fighter Aircraft NOT from SKD & CKD kits followed by incremental indigenization but from ground up which means setting up the entire eco system & then fine tuning it in association with their vendors mostly MSMEs , DRDO / ADA & the IAF. To top it all they're answerable not only to the MoD & thru it to the GoI & parliamentary oversight but have the CAG on their back too .

The last part is important as I'm given to understand it was the tendering process of a few LRUs which held back deliveries of the committed qty of the Mk-1a's. Latest news reports like for instance tweets by Snehesh Alex Philip of The misPrint suggests deliveries have been pushed back to the last quarter of this year . Can't vouch for its veracity.

Finally , if you want results , get the GoI to break up HAL in 3-4 cos with a charter to each such company on their Scope of Activities & privatise all its constitutents. Otherwise be prepared for more of the same.

As it is we're seeing Airbus bring in a 50 year old product the H- 125 to India to test the waters under the MII program following which you can expect them to set up the entire mfg line here & capitalise on the demand here whereas LUH is still being certified & HAL isn't too bothered about the prospect of losing out on the domestic commercial market for it has its plate full building everything from the RUAV to AMCA .

Ditto for our DPSU shipyards where after throwing open the sector , you can expect players from the Pvt Sector who've nothing to do with shipping till date to set up JVs with the Koreans & Japanese to take advantage of all the sops GoI has to offer.
 
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Well HAL do have a lot of babudom so chief anger is justified here
IAF right now relies heavily on Tejas delivery and there is no plan B and HAL knows this and take undue advantage, If imports were green lighted today then HAL will crib that they are not trusted with orders
Only point of contention is how damaging would it be due to feud commig out in open
 
All this complaining by IAF chief is fine and dandy, but can can he explain why the flying eff did IAF take 3 damned years, yes 3 years to sign the bloody contract for the initial 83 Tejas order ? Now is HAL to blame for that delays too ? Why not one press guy nor veterans ever questions that ?
 

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