Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[redpanda]

View: https://x.com/wartrophy_414/status/1889505691901301029

PR department finally got the funding bois.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

View: https://x.com/shirobarks/status/1889549373106749625?s=46

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

View: https://youtu.be/F0Jsh0rNqzA?si=VQ9gw3lNGCIGmDos

 

[Brood Father]

Well HAL do have a lot of babudom so chief anger is justified here
IAF right now relies heavily on Tejas delivery and there is no plan B and HAL knows this and take undue advantage, If imports were green lighted today then HAL will crib that they are not trusted with orders
Only point of contention is how damaging would it be due to feud commig out in open

 

[samsaptaka]

All this complaining by IAF chief is fine and dandy, but can can he explain why the flying eff did IAF take 3 damned years, yes 3 years to sign the bloody contract for the initial 83 Tejas order ? Now is HAL to blame for that delays too ? Why not one press guy nor veterans ever questions that ?

 

[bruno]

All this complaining by IAF chief is fine and dandy, but can can he explain why the flying eff did IAF take 3 damned years, yes 3 years to sign the bloody contract for the initial 83 Tejas order ? Now is HAL to blame for that delays too ? Why not one press guy nor veterans ever questions that ?

While HAL is not able to deliver more than 3 Tejas a year in average, 3 years in delay is just a detail.
I can't reply for you as I'm not aware about the governance in India. But there Is a matter of budget, so government is involved. There is also a négociation between HAL, managed by the mod, and IAF. the air force is not able to make its own decision when it comes to sign for such a big deal. If it was the case, you should already able to see 200 Rafale over your head !

 

[Nibbler]

While HAL is not able to deliver more than 3 Tejas a year in average, 3 years in delay is just a detail.
I can't reply for you as I'm not aware about the governance in India. But there Is a matter of budget, so government is involved. There is also a négociation between HAL, managed by the mod, and IAF. the air force is not able to make its own decision when it comes to sign for such a big deal. If it was the case, you should already able to see 200 Rafale over your head !

What does this mean frenchbro

 

[bruno]

What does this mean frenchbro

It means that negotiating during 3 years for a contract of 83 Tejas is not an issue. On my side I don't know where the problem is.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

There is a much more simple explanation for all of this.

Spoiler

 

[705-Lira]

View: https://youtu.be/F0Jsh0rNqzA?si=VQ9gw3lNGCIGmDos

As expected what was supposed to be a private conversation ended being recorded public humiliation at airshow attended by delegations from the world over, now that the shitshow has begun every Tom, Dick and Harry with their half-to-zero-to-nonexistent technical knowledge and zero understanding of ground realities will be coming up with their own prophecies and an ignorant crowd with zero understanding of professional conduct and with their love for making sweeping idiotic statements will cheer them on gleefully.

 

[Charlie]

lockheed is 100 years old
martin is 60+ years old
raytheon is 100+ years old
harris is 130 years old

they too had their share of ups and downs during this journey.

murica as a country became private first, before they went public. they got private toll roads, railways, and telephone companies before their govt even intervened.

India story is very different from murican story, for us everything is gormint first and private business story is just 30 years old. safe to say Indian solution to this problem will not be same as murica's giant defence contractors.

many of the folks who used to get angry when air India was being managed by gormint and talked as if privatisation will solve all the probems, are on radio silence after TATA's tookover and bad service is continuing. these things happen, not everything goes according to plan.

my point is simply this, just keep an open mind as to which way this industry will evolve. we have our entire lifetimes to cheer for a good outcome as spectators.

Well it’s not a great example to compare airlines to defence manufacturing.

All airlines are penny pinchers and most of the airlines own privately goes belly up or had chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Better example would be comparing the 155 gun between private and psu, I don’t think still the 155 45 gun has been delivered by the psu.

K9 will be all delivered on time, I think it’s time for government to break the monopoly and may the better performer take the contract.

I am glad that atleast in shipyard we have competition now, L&T will big role in future though they are out of the submarine race now.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

As expected what was supposed to be a private conversation ended being recorded public humiliation at airshow attended by delegations from the world over, now that the shitshow has begun every Tom, Dick and Harry with their half-to-zero-to-nonexistent technical knowledge and zero understanding of ground realities will be coming up with their own prophecies and an ignorant crowd with zero understanding of professional conduct and with their love for making sweeping idiotic statements will cheer them on gleefully.

It didnt seem like the chief wanted to have a private conversation.He very well knew there are cameras all around and recording and as a matter of fact when he finished he even taunted the camera team saying you must have got your bite.

 

[ezsasa]

Well it’s not a great example to compare airlines to defence manufacturing.

All airlines are penny pinchers and most of the airlines own privately goes belly up or had chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Better example would be comparing the 155 gun between private and psu, I don’t think still the 155 45 gun has been delivered by the psu.

K9 will be all delivered on time, I think it’s time for government to break the monopoly and may the better performer take the contract.

I am glad that atleast in shipyard we have competition now, L&T will big role in future though they are out of the submarine race now.

when i am trying to keep the conversation around aircrafts and indian companies executing aircraft related contracts, you want to expand this convo to land systems which are relatively less complex contracts to execute, and naval contracts which are a result of IN taking decision to develop domestic production capabilities decades ago, then this convo would go in circles. not interested in expanding the convo beyond a point.

i think i have conveyed what i wanted to in my earlier posts.

any info on this?

is there publicly available information on the business of fighter jet integration in Indian context?

like the number of lead times, dependencies, number of vendors, today mandays, total project timeline etc. rough idea from within the industry, not second hand info. exact details not needed either.

 

[Indianhawk]

As expected what was supposed to be a private conversation ended being recorded public humiliation at airshow attended by delegations from the world over, now that the shitshow has begun every Tom, Dick and Harry with their half-to-zero-to-nonexistent technical knowledge and zero understanding of ground realities will be coming up with their own prophecies and an ignorant crowd with zero understanding of professional conduct and with their love for making sweeping idiotic statements will cheer them on gleefully.

If this was to be private they should have got a room. It was spoken in public because it was meant to be public.

 

[Indianhawk]

Lca and it's varients were always secondary for IAF. But govt refusal to shell out 25 billion for mrfa in one go forced them to be serious with lca program finally. That's why all these concerns and complaints.

Air force and navy together need 1000 jets. If imported they will all cost 150 billion usd !!

Just 36+26 rafales are costing us 16 billion usd.

Meanwhile we will have 83+97= 180 mk1a under 14 Billion usd.

200 mk2 will cost under 20 billion too.

IAF desperately wants a private line to compete with hal. They wanted it with mrfa tot but that was deemed to costly by babus. Now IAF wants to private sector to lead lca mk2 and Amca production.

The battle is out in open let's see where it takes us.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

Lca and it's varients were always secondary for IAF. But govt refusal to shell out 25 billion for mrfa in one go forced them to be serious with lca program finally. That's why all these concerns and complaints.

Air force and navy together need 1000 jets. If imported they will all cost 150 billion usd !!

Just 36+26 rafales are costing us 16 billion usd.

Meanwhile we will have 83+97= 180 mk1a under 14 Billion usd.

200 mk2 will cost under 20 billion too.

IAF desperately wants a private line to compete with hal. They wanted it with mrfa tot but that was deemed to costly by babus. Now IAF wants to private sector to lead lca mk2 and Amca production.

The battle is out in open let's see where it takes us.

I am extremely doubtful behind the intent of Private Sector ToT Kickstarter argument of IAF. The argument is fine it it's about impartation of Industry Standards and such. But iam doubtful since it's coming from IAF. What exactly private sector gonna learn about? Is it airframe composites? But then how exactly making a 4.5th gen composites from Dassualt gonna be applied to Fifth gen RAS? Is is about Internal Avionics? Because no private company makes them except for Gormint ones.

Iam yet to find a answer to what exactly MRFA gonna impart to private sector and how is that relevant to next generation composites or alloys?

 

[Indianhawk]

I am extremely doubtful behind the intent of Private Sector ToT Kickstarter argument of IAF. The argument is fine it it's about impartation of Industry Standards and such. But iam doubtful since it's coming from IAF. What exactly private sector gonna learn about? Is it airframe composites? But then how exactly making a 4.5th gen composites from Dassualt gonna be applied to Fifth gen RAS? Is is about Internal Avionics? Because no private company makes them except for Gormint ones.

Iam yet to find a answer to what exactly MRFA gonna impart to private sector and how is that relevant to next generation composites or alloys?

It will learn similar to what hal learned from su30mki manufacturing. Idea is that private sector with it's greed will actually learn much more than what PSU have ever done through various tot programs.

Regarding composites lca has more composite surface compared to rafale. That private sector is already learning by making components parts for lca.

Mrfa was supposed to bring whole ecosystem of which will move from assembly to manufacturing from local sources over time.

Argument against this is that mk2 and Amca will do that much better.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

It will learn similar to what hal learned from su30mki manufacturing. Idea is that private sector with it's greed will actually learn much more than what PSU have ever done through various tot programs.

Regarding composites lca has more composite surface compared to rafale. That private sector is already learning by making components parts for lca.

Mrfa was supposed to bring whole ecosystem of which will move from assembly to manufacturing from local sources over time.

Argument against this is that mk2 and Amca will do that much better.

I asked what EXACTLY private sector gonna learn with MRFA? How is that different from a private sector being given incharge of AMCA Or LCA Mk2. Like private sector already does majority of the work like Only front fuselage comes from HAL with remaining from Private Vendors in case of Tejas. Canopy, Display, Radar comes from Private Companies.

Are you saying somehow a 4.5th gen technologies impart gonna be translated to 5th gen magically?

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

It will learn similar to what hal learned from su30mki manufacturing. Idea is that private sector with it's greed will actually learn much more than what PSU have ever done through various tot programs.

Regarding composites lca has more composite surface compared to rafale. That private sector is already learning by making components parts for lca.

Mrfa was supposed to bring whole ecosystem of which will move from assembly to manufacturing from local sources over time.

Argument against this is that mk2 and Amca will do that much better.

HAL learned jackshit from Su-30 interms of avionics or composites. It basically took it from piece of crap russians supplied to more acceptable thing indigenizing components on their own. Russians couldn't even do proper composites then. Those avionics were junk that HAL imported some and made some on their own. LCA Tejas flew before Su-30MKI became a thing.

 

[Indianhawk]

HAL learned jackshit from Su-30 interms of avionics or composites. It basically took it from piece of crap russians supplied to more acceptable thing indigenizing components on their own. Russians couldn't even do proper composites then. Those avionics were junk that HAL imported some and made some on their own. LCA Tejas flew before Su-30MKI became a thing.

You should read about indeginous content in al31 at the moment . Hal learned this from su30mki. It is hoped private sector would be more efficient and faster and getting there with m88 of rafale or f414 tot which is coming for mk2 and Amca.

You are right about composites but I posted that already myself.

Tejas and mki programs fed into one - another.