LCA TEJAS MK-I & MK-IA: News and Discussion

[Satish Sharma Ji]

How do we differentiate Mk1A from Mk1? Through the use of refueling probes? Only Mk1A and above have refueling probes?

The rudder is longer and most easy there is not rwr sensor in rudder assembly.
The big rectangular thing

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

According to @BON PLAN Airbus 320 is a fighter jet which have FBW and can pull 9g.

According to experts here this is unstable design as well because it's use FBW

Now @BON PLAN is a official French Akim

View attachment 9104

Now listen this guy retired from 2nd highest post of iaf.
From 14:40 minutes onwards.
It is humanely impossible to control unstable design. So that's why it needs constant computer intervention. Now coming back to ur debate that mig 29 is not a unstable design I dont know that but what I know is initial mig29s did lack fbw initially.
Later one it was made unstable. Is it very easy to make a stable design unstable alter fuel release of both wing it shouldn't be equal. Both should have different fuel stored.
here u have a unstable design. And later mirages 2000s did same thing.
Tejas has both things unstable design & altered fuel release from wings.

View: https://www.youtube.com/live/SZaaVPP_F-8?feature=shared

 

[DumbPilot]

Lol dude
Fighter jets have fbw because they are designed unstable (RSS) it can't be stabilised with manual inputs do u even know what a unstable design is.
The first aircraft to use fbw was a commercial airliner indeed.
Any aircraft which has fbw doesn't mean it's a fighter jet and can pull 9gs

It is because it is a big air craft computer controls make it fly stable and better and also fbw is lighter in comparison to only hydro mechanical controls.
And u can also save some space for fuel etc etc.

A unstable designed can't be controlled w/o computer intervention.

Spoiler: .

View attachment 9109

Source- View attachment 9110

Even small kids know this little things Biradhar
Just a simple question how can u keep stable a unstable design without constant intervention. Which computer does in fbw.
And who said fbw has only applications in military jets ??

fun fact, the first analog FBW aircraft was the Avro Arrow

the first digital FBW aircraft without any backup was the Vought F-8 Crusader, which used the computer directly derived from the Apollo Command/Lunar module

 

[Vishnugupt]

What I know is any unstable designs need fbw to control it can't be controlled without fbw.
So tell me mig 29s were unstable without fbw to fly. And how come they flew without fbw ?

This is absolutely wrong. A unstable design can we be controlled without FBW.

Mig-29 and J-17 is the example.

 

[BlackViking]

Having one bird earmarked specially for Airshows and demos and painted accordingly with a more eye catching paint scheme will be such a good PR option for this bird.
Something on the line of the SoloTurk demo!
View attachment 8890

https://www.yokogaomag.com/editorial/japan-f15-fighter-paint

 

[DumbPilot]

https://www.yokogaomag.com/editorial/japan-f15-fighter-paint

 

[mist_consecutive]

Please are warned not to call names and troll. Don't get too emotional on arguments.

@Vishnugupt @Satish Sharma Ji @BON PLAN Please have a civil discussion. Avoid name calling. People are allowed to have opinions.

 

[BON PLAN]

According to @BON PLAN Airbus 320 is a fighter jet which have FBW and can pull 9g.

According to experts here this is unstable design as well because it's use FBW

Now @BON PLAN is a official French Akim

View attachment 9104

I wrote : https://defenceforumbharat.com/threads/lca-tejas-mk-i-mk-ia-news-and-discussion.112/post-29746

A320 is a stable design. FBW are there, as explained, to reduce weight, improve reliability, limit the flight envelope and adapt the flying laws in case of a damage (a war damage if it is a fighter).

 

[Spitfire IX]

IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari met the Brazil Air Force Chief Lieutenant-brigadier Marcelo Kantiz Damasceno on September 11. Talking to the Indian news channel TimesNow, the Brazilian air chief said that the Tejas were an option for the Latin American air force.

SWAP Deal? Brazil Could Buy India's LCA Tejas If IAF Acquires Embraer C-390! Are Brazilians Hinting At Barter?

India and Brazil have been growing close militarily. As the Brazilian delegation is visiting India, Indian Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas and helicopters and the probable sale of Embraer C-390 Millennium to the Indian Air Force (IAF) are on the table. In recent times, defense deals have been...

www.eurasiantimes.com

This may just be a case of the Brazil Air Force Chief being asked if the FAB would consider acquiring Tejas Mk1A and diplomatically answering in the affirmative. However, given the interest in F-16 that Brazil expressed earlier this year (presumably on cost grounds), it may also be a real possibility. India is reported to be paying around $43 million a frame for 83 Tejas Mk1A. It would be a more appropriate replacement for F-5 at a much lower cost than Gripen E. Brazil's F-5 fighters are scheduled for retirement before 2030, allowing HAL the time to deliver the 83 ordered by India and start delivering to Brazil before F-5 leaves service. Tejas Mk1A looks like a better long term prospect financially than high hours used F-16.

Brazil's C-390 is a candidate for India's MTA replacement programme. A C-390/Tejas Mk1A deal looks to have some virtue.

 

[Azaad]

SWAP Deal? Brazil Could Buy India's LCA Tejas If IAF Acquires Embraer C-390! Are Brazilians Hinting At Barter?

India and Brazil have been growing close militarily. As the Brazilian delegation is visiting India, Indian Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas and helicopters and the probable sale of Embraer C-390 Millennium to the Indian Air Force (IAF) are on the table. In recent times, defense deals have been...

www.eurasiantimes.com

This may just be a case of the Brazil Air Force Chief being asked if the FAB would consider acquiring Tejas Mk1A and diplomatically answering in the affirmative. However, given the interest in F-16 that Brazil expressed earlier this year (presumably on cost grounds), it may also be a real possibility. India is reported to be paying around $43 million a frame for 83 Tejas Mk1A. It would be a more appropriate replacement for F-5 at a much lower cost than Gripen E. Brazil's F-5 fighters are scheduled for retirement before 2030, allowing HAL the time to deliver the 83 ordered by India and start delivering to Brazil before F-5 leaves service. Tejas Mk1A looks like a better long term prospect financially than high hours used F-16.

Brazil's C-390 is a candidate for India's MTA replacement programme. A C-390/Tejas Mk1A deal looks to have some virtue.

No foreign AF is ever going to consider the Mk-1a or the Mk-2 unless it's inducted in good numbers by the IAF & demonstrates trouble free performance living upto its promise for at least 5-7 years. It's only after this can our offerings be considered by these foreign AFs.

With Brazil the situation is slightly unique in that they're offering us something which we lack namely the MTA & vice versa .If the governments at the highest level decide to collaborate we could see a quid pro quo .

Although I'd like to see this happen I'm not too hopeful as there are too many variables.

 

[Spitfire IX]

No foreign AF is ever going to consider the Mk-1a or the Mk-2 unless it's inducted in good numbers by the IAF & demonstrates trouble free performance living upto its promise for at least 5-7 years. It's only after this can our offerings be considered by these foreign AFs.

With Brazil the situation is slightly unique in that they're offering us something which we lack namely the MTA & vice versa .If the governments at the highest level decide to collaborate we could see a quid pro quo .

Although I'd like to see this happen I'm not too hopeful as there are too many variables.

Mk1A/C-390 looks like a good fit to me. Win/win. Regarding ordering a type that has not been in home air force service for some years, does this apply so much here where Mk1A is not a new type but a variant of an existing type in use for many years? I guess the risk is a lot lower than with an unknown type.

In any event the speed (speed?) at which Indian procurement works would suggest that no decision on selecting an MTA type will be made until 2026 or later. If C-390 were selected on its own merits, Brazil could raise a Letter of Intention and order when happy with the data collected on Mk1A in IAF service - or reject the type. Brazil is not under threat from any neighbouring countries so could perhaps wait before making a decision on placing an order.

 

[Azaad]

Mk1A/C-390 looks like a good fit to me. Win/win. Regarding ordering a type that has not been in home air force service for some years, does this apply so much here where Mk1A is not a new type but a variant of an existing type in use for many years? I guess the risk is a lot lower than with an unknown type.

In any event the speed (speed?) at which Indian procurement works would suggest that no decision on selecting an MTA type will be made until 2026 or later. If C-390 were selected on its own merits, Brazil could raise a Letter of Intention and order when happy with the data collected on Mk1A in IAF service - or reject the type. Brazil is not under threat from any neighbouring countries so could perhaps wait before making a decision on placing an order.

The reason I stated earlier that there were too many variables is this - we're already operating the LM C-130J , around 12 of them .

What's more the C-130J is a contender in the MTA tender & LM has recently expanded the range of its collaboration with its local partner TASL to offer MRO & enhanced assembly & mfg facilities here in anticipation of an order.

Lockheed Martin and Tata Advanced Systems Announce Agreement to Expand C-130J Super Hercules Opportunities in India

Agreement Supports India's Medium Transport Aircraft Program and New Maintenance Facility DELHI, India, Sept. 10, 2024 /PRNewswire/ -- Lockheed Martin (NYSE: LMT) and Tata Advanced Systems Limited...

news.lockheedmartin.com

It remains to be seen if GoI really wants to expand its scope of co operation with the US.

EMBRAER on the other hand , holds plenty of promise , not just of collaboration in this particular case but in the future as well . Besides if our security managers have some strategic foresight which we here gravely doubt, they should be thinking in terms of acquiring EMBRAER at some point of time in the future with the MTA forming a stepping stone in that direction.

 

[Spitfire IX]

The reason I stated earlier that there were too many variables is this - we're already operating the LM C-130J , around 12 of them .

What's more the C-130J is a contender in the MTA tender & LM has recently expanded the range of its collaboration with its local partner TASL to offer MRO & enhanced assembly & mfg facilities here in anticipation of an order.

Lockheed Martin and Tata Advanced Systems Announce Agreement to Expand C-130J Super Hercules Opportunities in India

Agreement Supports India's Medium Transport Aircraft Program and New Maintenance Facility DELHI, India, Sept. 10, 2024 /PRNewswire/ -- Lockheed Martin (NYSE: LMT) and Tata Advanced Systems Limited...

news.lockheedmartin.com

It remains to be seen if GoI really wants to expand its scope of co operation with the US.

EMBRAER on the other hand , holds plenty of promise , not just of collaboration in this particular case but in the future as well . Besides if our security managers have some strategic foresight which we here gravely doubt, they should be thinking in terms of acquiring EMBRAER at some point of time in the future with the MTA forming a stepping stone in that direction.

Yes, but C-130J and C-390 do different jobs. C-390 can carry much more freight from A to B in 24 hours than C-130J (larger load, higher speed) whereas I believe that C-130J can use shorter airstrips. How many airlifters does India need able to outperform C-390 on landing and take off distance?

I imagine that if C-390 was selected, Embraer would offer India MRO for the Asian region.

The other variable I see is Tejas Mk1A. There won't be any sale to the US as part of a C-130J deal. There could be a sale to Brazil as part of a C-390 deal. Brazil has around 40 F-5 to replace. Even 30 Mk1A would bring in around $1.5 billion. Correct me if wrong but I think that would be by far the biggest export arms deal in India's history. It would also lend credibility to the Mk1A in the eyes of potential buyers, wouldn't it?

 

[Nutcracker]

Yes, but C-130J and C-390 do different jobs. C-390 can carry much more freight from A to B in 24 hours than C-130J (larger load, higher speed) whereas I believe that C-130J can use shorter airstrips. How many airlifters does India need able to outperform C-390 on landing and take off distance?

I imagine that if C-390 was selected, Embraer would offer India MRO for the Asian region.

The other variable is Tejas Mk1A. There won't be any sale to the US as part of a C-130J deal. There could be a sale to Brazil as part of a C-390 deal. Brazil has around 40 F-5 to replace. Even 30 Mk1A would bring in around $1.5 billion, more with spares and support. Correct me if wrong but I think that would be by far the biggest export arms deal in India's history. It would also lend credibility to the Mk1A in the eyes of potential buyers, wouldn't it?

Very much possible. Definitely Embraer would be getting huge boost if they are selected in MTA. Brazil would also like Embraer to survive in the civillian market onslaught against Airbus and Boeing.

 

[Azaad]

Very much possible. Definitely Embraer would be getting huge boost if they are selected in MTA. Brazil would also like Embraer to survive in the civillian market onslaught against Airbus and Boeing.

In terms of volume , C-130J beats C-390 although the weight carried by the latter is definitely much more than the former.

Check out this thread.


View: https://x.com/KesariDhwaj/status/1622170641251336192

Apart from this there's the unwritten US diktat of all arms going into Latin America being either of US origin or those of their CLOSE allies. We're neither.

Can Brazilian armed forces go against Washington ? Traditionally , at least in the recent past their military establishment has had closer ties with Washington than their political leadership.

However Brazil is a large nation.It's quite possible they may exercise independence in their decision making just as it's quite possible Washington doesn't interfere. However what I'm putting forth has been the standard US policy till date & unquestioning acceptance of it by Latin American countries.

 

[Nutcracker]

In terms of volume , C-130J beats C-390 although the weight carried by the latter is definitely much more than the former.

Check out this thread.


View: https://x.com/KesariDhwaj/status/1622170641251336192

Apart from this there's the unwritten US diktat of all arms going into Latin America being either of US origin or those of their CLOSE allies. We're neither.

Can Brazilian armed forces go against Washington ? Traditionally , at least in the recent past their military establishment has had closer ties with Washington than their political leadership.

However Brazil is a large nation.It's quite possible they may exercise independence in their decision making just as it's quite possible Washington doesn't interfere. However what I'm putting forth has been the standard US policy till date & unquestioning acceptance of it by Latin American countries.

I think his source for C130J-30 cargo length is seriously wrong. It's just 55 ft ~ 16.7M.
I remember doing my own analysis and C390 was beating C130J hands down. Only doubt is regarding its capability of landing on crude runway.





View: https://x.com/KesariDhwaj/status/1622170696494518272

 

[FalconSlayers]

View: https://x.com/idrwalerts/status/1834208220681830430

 

[jaijaganath]

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1834218455639490635

 

[Azaad]

I think his source for C130J-30 cargo length is seriously wrong. It's just 55 ft ~ 16.7M.
I remember doing my own analysis and C390 was beating C130J hands down. Only doubt is regarding its capability of landing on crude runway.


View attachment 9242


View: https://x.com/KesariDhwaj/status/1622170696494518272

RVs included the ramp which you haven't considered. That explains the discrepancy in the dimensions.

C-130E/H/J-30: length, 56 feet (16.9 meters); width, 123 inches (3.12 meters); height, 9 feet (2.74 meters). Rear ramp: length, 119.9 inches (3.12 meters); width, 118.9 inches (36.24 meters)

https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/1555054/c-130-hercules/

Does it count in stowage ? I've no clue.

I personally would like to see the C-390 in Indian colours apart from future projects with EMBRAER in a JV followed by a merger with Mahindra if possible or at least that should be our goal if we're serious about developing our civilian airliners . I'm not sure if all this is possible or even part of it is . Let's hope for the best though.

 

[Nutcracker]

RVs included the ramp which you haven't considered. That explains the discrepancy in the dimensions.

https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/1555054/c-130-hercules/

Does it count in stowage ? I've no clue.

I personally would like to see the C-390 in Indian colours apart from future projects with EMBRAER in a JV followed by a merger with Mahindra if possible or at least that should be our goal if we're serious about developing our civilian airliners . I'm not sure if all this is possible or even part of it is . Let's hope for the best though.

Hm. It's a pity that in similar manner without ramp C390 will be 3m~ shorter. C130J seems to be specifically built for voluminous cargo.

We need more companies in this game. Tata alone hogging all deals will also turn costly. They have tie up with Airbus and LM at the same time.