LCA TEJAS MK-I & MK-IA: News and Discussion

[Vishnugupt]

Show me any source where customer (IAF) insisted on GE404? It was HALs decision to go with imported engine after Kaveri failed the tests.

I think You must have heard about RFI kind of things where Manufacturers send technical evaluation and cost to consumer.

In these requests (If you have any knowledge how a company works ) production agency start manufacturing only after costumer agreed/happy with all points/systems.

So how come HAL is responsible for engine selection?? Airforce have a wing of millitary intelligence where they also look into it. But HAL have nothing like this.

So IAF agreeing with HAL means, IAF had verified all possibilities.

Further to clear your confusion, recently Chinese Items were found in Dhanush howitzer which resulted in Inquiry and rejection of product. But you will still say UN Generals has nothing to do while buying weapons for themselves.

MoD/IAF ordered the jets. Its HALs responsibility to deliver, not IAFs. The decision to choose GE engines (prone to sanctions), vs. Snecma engines (lower thrust) vs. RD-33 (an absolute garbage with high failure rate) rests completely on the manufactuer HAL, and Tejas will be evaluated on that basis.

This attitude is my problem. How boldly you writting "it's HAL problem" as soon as things go south.

Don't you think all should be blamed specially IAF and GoI who failed to judge the situation and failed to mitigate drawback of selecting GE engine??

Technically, I explained to you that is not IAF's problem, its HALs. If tomorrow war starts and IAF is short on jets nobody will blame HAL for not delivering jets but IAF for not taking correct decisions of buying required equipments. Its the same logic. Everyone has a different area of responsibility.

Again, Your bias is clearly visible again.

Tell me who need fighter jets?? iAF.
Who is not getting fighter jets?? IAF
Who is low in squadrons ?? IAF
If war happened then who will be blamed?? IAF

So it is/was IAF problem But still IAF chose to remain a sitting duck.

IAF should have acted much earlier to avoid this mess. But you people were defending IAF then and even today.

My problem is I still tolerate your bullshit in the name of free speech when its actually free garbage.

Your problem is you want monopoly of abusing one side only. The moment someone point out towards you. You become agitated and start threatening.

You love to live in own ECHO chamber. When IAF chosen AWAC system on Air India jets, I was first to appreciate their decision.

You are just defending Generals meanwhile soldiers are dying daily and you happy.

Thanks for reminding, this is your second last warning. Write meaningful posts without uttering abuses.

Never blackmail me like HR, happens in Indian office. You want to ban then ban me. If you are so dedicated to serve UN Generals then please go ahead. Make DFB a echo chamber.

 

[shauryaman65]

Things are not that bad, are they? Not sure without checking but I think that Sukhoi has delivered about 20 Su57 in about 5 years.

What I remember GE saying is that they aim to ramp up F404-IN20 production to 20 a year.

hope that happens

 

[Vishnugupt]

I'm going to ask you a question:

Imagine you have spent many decades and many tens of billions of dollars learning how to do something. I come along and ask for that knowledge. You don't want to pass it to me. How exactly are you blackmailing me?

First, I will request You to correct your question.
You are not asking for knowledge (Technology), You are asking for product (Engine ).

Further to answer your question. America claims India's a partner who happened to sell product to its partners so not selling product to india or delaying it (intentionally If in case ) is black mailing.

 

[125mm_Smoothbore]

Show me any source where customer (IAF) insisted on GE404? It was HALs decision to go with imported engine after Kaveri failed the tests.

i think iaf reccomended EJ200 [brit version of 414] for tejas but the plan was dropped mostly due to in20 engine were with better specifications

 

[Nutcracker]

Look for second hand Mirage-2000s as an urgent stopgap arrangement to tide over the Tejas Mk1A not joining in the numbers required thanks to GE.

Also speed up the AESA upgrades for Mig29..

 

[125mm_Smoothbore]

First, I will request You to correct your question.
You are not asking for knowledge (Technology), You are asking for product (Engine ).

Further to answer your question. America claims India's a partner who happened to sell product to its partners so not selling product to india or delaying it (intentionally If in case ) is black mailing.

i think @Spitfire IX is talking bout GE F414 not the 404 in this case

imo supply and demand should have a balance lets say if the supplier has no lack of order he can ditch the buyer anytime

we never used our buyer diplomacy for good we could force america that due to less fighter availability we have to buy 20-30 more flanker from russia it would put pressure on the seller to make space for the engines to the buyer one vendor situation is always bad and leaves the power in hands of the seller
we never had these problem with russia/soviets tbh [they overcharge as in their way of extracting the pound of flesh] but we have them with west

 

[Spitfire IX]

i think iaf reccomended EJ200 [brit version of 404] for tejas but the plan was dropped mostly due to in20 engine were with better specifications

I recall that GE F414 and EJ200 were both evaluated for use with Tejas Mk2. I think that F414 was selected on cost grounds.

 

[Nutcracker]

Show me any source where customer (IAF) insisted on GE404? It was HALs decision to go with imported engine after Kaveri failed the tests.

Do you have proof that IAF chose some other engine ??
Please tell me why would HAL go for GE if IAF had opted for EJ200 or something else ? What difference does EJ or GE makes for HAL ?

Watch first 1 minute.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTBpyrQsUw

 

[Blademaster]

Show me any source where customer (IAF) insisted on GE404? It was HALs decision to go with imported engine after Kaveri failed the tests.



MoD/IAF ordered the jets. Its HALs responsibility to deliver, not IAFs. The decision to choose GE engines (prone to sanctions), vs. Snecma engines (lower thrust) vs. RD-33 (an absolute garbage with high failure rate) rests completely on the manufactuer HAL, and Tejas will be evaluated on that basis.



Technically, I explained to you that is not IAF's problem, its HALs. If tomorrow war starts and IAF is short on jets nobody will blame HAL for not delivering jets but IAF for not taking correct decisions of buying required equipments. Its the same logic. Everyone has a different area of responsibility.

No it was the MoD/IAF that chose the engine, not HAL. HAL does not control ADA or the designers of the LCA. HAL just manufacture the planes.

 

[Vishnugupt]

Do you have proof that IAF chose some other engine ??
Please tell me why would HAL go for GE if IAF had opted for EJ200 or something else ? What difference does EJ or GE makes for HAL ?

Watch first 1 minute.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTBpyrQsUw

No it was the MoD/IAF that chose the engine, not HAL. HAL does not control ADA or the designers of the LCA. HAL just manufacture the planes.

Such abuse against IAF should not be tolerated. These people openly failed to blame HAL/PSUs/GoI.

Remember, Even sharing a blame with IAF/IN/IA is punishable offence on DFB under sanction 786.

 

[Spitfire IX]

Indian Defence Updates says that at the time of signing a contract to supply engines in 2021, GE informed India that there might be a delay in delivery. If that was true why did India not start actively negotiating with possible M2K, MiG-29 suppliers to procure used fighters in case the possible delay in the supply of F404 engines became a reality? And why did India not order more Su-30MKI?

indian defence updates - Google Search

 

[Vishnugupt]

Indian Defence Updates says that at the time of signing a contract to supply engines in 2021, GE informed India that there might be a delay in delivery. If that was true why did India not start actively negotiating with possible M2K, MiG-29 suppliers to procure used fighters in case the possible delay in the supply of F404 engines became a reality? And why did India not order more Su-30MKI?

indian defence updates - Google Search

Because all your suggestions would have taken much much more time then waiting for GE engine for few months.

 

[Screambowl]

According to you, HAL should have bought GE engine before Tejas MK1a deal. Why?? UN Generals gave orders for 83 Tejas MK1a in 2021 (After COVID ) but UN Generals want HAL to buy engine in 2010. Now I can understand what kind of naval professional you are.

Issue is the ToT. That's why the Generals wanted the engine earlier assuming delays will be there, because Kaveri was already a failure by that time. But anyhow neither there is Tot nor there is engine as of now. They will not give you the technology easily.

There should always be a second plan.

 

[Spitfire IX]

Because all your suggestions would have taken much much more time then waiting for GE engine for few months.

It would take more than three and a half years to buy the used M2K from Qatar that Qatar wants to sell?

 

[Bleh]

Indian Defence Updates says that at the time of signing a contract to supply engines in 2021, GE informed India that there might be a delay in delivery. If that was true why did India not start actively negotiating with possible M2K, MiG-29 suppliers to procure used fighters in case the possible delay in the supply of F404 engines became a reality? And why did India not order more Su-30MKI?

indian defence updates - Google Search

Kyuki hum chutiye hy

 

[mist_consecutive]

Do you have proof that IAF chose some other engine ??
Please tell me why would HAL go for GE if IAF had opted for EJ200 or something else ? What difference does EJ or GE makes for HAL ?

Watch first 1 minute.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTBpyrQsUw

No source, nothing, one youtube video creating by a armchair fanboy is now our source of truth

GE engine was chosen (by whom?) to power Tejas as early as 2004 when Kaveri failed the tests. Thereafter you had ~17 years to choose/develop another engine before contract signing of 83 Mk1A on 2021.

No it was the MoD/IAF that chose the engine, not HAL. HAL does not control ADA or the designers of the LCA. HAL just manufacture the planes.

Who is responsible for designing Tejas ? ADA.
Who is responsible for manufacturing Tejas ? HAL.
Who is responsible if orders are not delivered ? IAF

Mtlb gazab, no accountability anywhere.

Tell me these -

• Who is responsible for gauging the risk of choosing US engines when we all know they are prone to sanctions ?
• Who is responsible for delivering the product on time which is a national security matter ?
• Who is responsible for dwindling fighter jets when we need them the most, when we placed our trust & national security on Tejas and ordered it ?
• If HAL was not confident of product delivery on time, why cockblock MRCA deal and misguide MoD ?

 

[Nutcracker]

H

No source, nothing, one youtube video creating by a armchair fanboy is now our source of truth

GE engine was chosen (by whom?) to power Tejas as early as 2004 when Kaveri failed the tests. Thereafter you had ~17 years to choose/develop another engine before contract signing of 83 Mk1A on 2021.



Who is responsible for designing Tejas ? ADA.
Who is responsible for manufacturing Tejas ? HAL.
Who is responsible if orders are not delivered ? IAF View attachment 5064

Mtlb gazab, no accountability anywhere.

Tell me these -

• Who is responsible for gauging the risk of choosing US engines when we all know they are prone to sanctions ?
• Who is responsible for delivering the product on time which is a national security matter ?
• Who is responsible for dwindling fighter jets when we need them the most, when we placed our trust & national security on Tejas and ordered it ?
• If HAL was not confident of product delivery on time, why cockblock MRCA deal and misguide MoD ?

LoL,
Dude do you even understand that HAL did not develop TEJAS ?? It's ADA and Airforce project.

Instead of immaturely posting Pepe, just respond to my question that "what difference does it make for HAL if its GE, RD-33 or EJ200" ?? Their job is just to act as assembler.

FFS think a little instead of blind hate toward HAL, they have experience with Mig29 engines. If it was actually in their hands they would've opted Russian engine instead.

Airforce Jurnails will spread their asscheeks infront of foreign company to buy 200M$ jet . But they will spend decades to finalise the LCA deal.
Remind you that the "fanboy" has more industrial- technical know-how than your average joystick clowns of airforce.

 

[Binayak95]

H

LoL,
Dude do you even understand that HAL did not develop TEJAS ?? It's ADA and Airforce project.

Instead of immaturely posting Pepe, just respond to my question that "what difference does it make for HAL if its GE, RD-33 or EJ200" ?? Their job is just to act as assembler.

FFS think a little instead of blind hate toward HAL, they have experience with Mig29 engines. If it was actually in their hands they would've opted Russian engine instead.

Airforce Jurnails will spread their asscheeks infront of foreign company to buy 200M$ jet . But they will spend decades to finalise the LCA deal.
Remind you that the "fanboy" has more industrial- technical know-how than your average joystick clowns of airforce.

Joystick clowns he says. Oh boi.

I could go into detail what IAF officers have achieved in EW, in air combat doctrine development, in countering AMRAAM (it is not lightly said that the Su30MKI dodged multiple AMRAAMs, some of which were NOT at DMAX)

I could mention how some of the most technical by the gauge flying done in the world is done exclusively by the IAF in logistics missions to the high plateaus, but I wont

It would be entirely lost on you

 

[Nutcracker]

Joystick clowns he says. Oh boi.

I could go into detail what IAF officers have achieved in EW, in air combat doctrine development, in countering AMRAAM (it is not lightly said that the Su30MKI dodged multiple AMRAAMs, some of which were NOT at DMAX)

I could mention how some of the most technical by the gauge flying done in the world is done exclusively by the IAF in logistics missions to the high plateaus, but I wont

It would be entirely lost on you

Oh wow, Cool , then you could also tell whose decision was to chose GE engine.

Go ahead , tell it in the reply to @mist_consecutive 's comment blaming the HAL for decision.

 

[Viktor]

My question is who were the intellectual morons to choose amreeki engines for Tejas, even after knowing the unreliablilty of ameriturds ?