LCA TEJAS MK-I & MK-IA: News and Discussion

[jaijaganath]

Nothing is going well in HAL

For many days he is speaking with hints and gestures
Nothing is clear

 

[Spitfire IX]

So basically no Tejas MK1a delivery in 2024. Just another lul year.

We should expect one or two Tejas MK1a by end of 2025.

Surprisingly UN Generals are not unhappy with GE but as usual unhappy with HAL only.

Gl0b0h0m0s Liberandu-sickulars and Brown Sipoy who always eager to blame anything which is Indian will remain Mum till 2026.

Dealing with American is like dealing with Warlord/Don/Gangster/God Father.

India supports Russia financially while Russia attacks its neighbour. The US provides military and financial aid to the victim of Russia's murderous attack. The US government is possibly quite happy to see problems with F404-IN20 production.

It will be interesting to see how things progress with the F414 deal. GE can offer as little ToT as it likes. I think that India will have to accept whatever is on offer unless it wants to see Tejas Mk2, TEDBF, AMCA Mk1 suffer further multi-year delays.

 

[shauryaman65]

India supports Russia financially while Russia attacks its neighbour. The US provides military and financial aid to the victim of Russia's murderous attack. The US government is possibly quite happy to see problems with F404-IN20 production.

It will be interesting to see how things progress with the F414 deal. GE can offer as little ToT as it likes. I think that India will have to accept whatever is on offer unless it wants to see Tejas Mk2, TEDBF, AMCA Mk1 suffer further multi-year delays.

We REALLY need to develop our own domestic engine, i know it has been said many times before but words cannot express how important it is to be self reliant on something as important as jet engines.

Unfortunately developing our own jet engine has been faced with a lot of problems due to the idiots at DRDO. We have been trying since the 80s ffs.
But thats just how complex jet engines are to be honest. Even china struggled for decades and had a lot of troubles with its own engines before they became good enough. And china is a dictatorship where work like this gets done typically faster than a democracy like India.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

India supports Russia financially while Russia attacks its neighbour. The US provides military and financial aid to the victim of Russia's murderous attack. The US government is possibly quite happy to see problems with F404-IN20 production.

It will be interesting to see how things progress with the F414 deal. GE can offer as little ToT as it likes. I think that India will have to accept whatever is on offer unless it wants to see Tejas Mk2, TEDBF, AMCA Mk1 suffer further multi-year delays.

Why doesn't the usa stops the encroachment on Russian borders what is the purpose for NATO?
I don't wanna fight now but usa has taught a good lesson glad policy makers will remember this and this will shape future policies.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

Vishwa gorilla ki mkb

View: https://youtu.be/JiPlHPnlHgo?feature=shared

View: https://youtu.be/cMFvGuYec-8?feature=shared

 

[Spitfire IX]

We REALLY need to develop our own domestic engine, i know it has been said many times before but words cannot express how important it is to be self reliant on something as important as jet engines.

Unfortunately developing our own jet engine has been faced with a lot of problems due to the idiots at DRDO. We have been trying since the 80s ffs.
But thats just how complex jet engines are to be honest. Even china struggled for decades and had a lot of troubles with its own engines before they became good enough. And china is a dictatorship where work like this gets done typically faster than a democracy like India.

India took the strategic decision to develop a fast jet engine for use in LCA more than 30 years ago. The only realistic chance of doing that in time for it to be ready for use in LCA would involve

- adequate funding
- a fast track system cutting out labyrinthine red tape, apparently so beloved in India
- management responsibility and accountability, apparently so disliked in India
- building wind tunnels
- building high altitude test chambers
- building/buying flying testbeds
- etc etc

LCA entered service in 2015. India has not yet developed a fast jet engine for use in LCA.

 

[Vishnugupt]

India took the strategic decision to develop a fast jet engine for use in LCA more than 30 years ago. The only realistic chance of doing that in time for it to be ready for use in LCA would involve

- adequate funding
- a fast track system cutting out labyrinthine red tape, apparently so beloved in India
- management responsibility and accountability, apparently so disliked in India
- building wind tunnels
- building high altitude test chambers
- building/buying flying testbeds
- etc etc

LCA entered service in 2015. India has not yet developed a fast jet engine for use in LCA.

I know, now days people don't like to hear truth but still I want say it.

Failure of develop a engine have multiple reasons. Blaming one person or organisation is totally unfair.

1) Non availability of know how. When Kaveri was started India have zero experience in Jet engines.

2) Lake of infrastructure, it's not about testing infrastructure but manufacturing of engine parts.

3) Lake of metallurgy expertise in india, only recently GOI focused on DMRL and MIDHANI

4) Choosing clean seat ab-initio program was also a mistake. DRDO could have develop a incremental engine on RD-33 (like China did with AL-31 engine )

5) ?Lack of funding. Only half knowledge people has been crying for funding. Funding was never an issue actually. Only course of Kaveri program changed.

Instead of Funding whole program GOI decided to fund subsystem development which actually a good decision infact this is a norm now in defence.

Like developing Isothermal techniques, Single crystals blades, High performance disc.

Metallurgy pert is more challenging in kaveri then anything else. Achieving engine grade structural endurance remain top problem given high temperature in hot section.

6) Blessings of UN Generals, as we all know our Armed forces motto is "Always set goals towards the failure" first they complete isolated the program ( By demanding a clean sheet design rather than developing pre-existing engine ) it would help India to fulfill past and future demands.

Zero commitment for Tejas till 2016 which led general apathy from Government, DRDO, private sector as user is not interested in product.

7) Work culture of India. Zero responsibility, Zero commitment to work.

Kaveri will not be built in this decade. India is atleast 15 years away from full fledged aero engine technology. Steeling technology is the only option.

 

[Spitfire IX]

Kaveri will not be built in this decade.

Perhaps not if nothing changes in the way the project is managed. Perhaps yes if there are changes in the way the project is managed. I appreciate that changing the way things are done is a radical, ridiculous idea, so will likely not happen.

 

[superpower]

Vishwa gorilla ki mkb

View: https://youtu.be/JiPlHPnlHgo?feature=shared

View: https://youtu.be/cMFvGuYec-8?feature=shared

So which Pvt firm he will be joining?

 

[Blademaster]

India supports Russia financially while Russia attacks its neighbour. The US provides military and financial aid to the victim of Russia's murderous attack. The US government is possibly quite happy to see problems with F404-IN20 production.

It will be interesting to see how things progress with the F414 deal. GE can offer as little ToT as it likes. I think that India will have

to accept whatever is on offer unless it wants to see Tejas Mk2, TEDBF, AMCA Mk1 suffer further multi-year delays.

Well India is supporting a country that stood by during its hour of grave need. I think India understands that value very well and that supporting a steadfast ally holds greater value that some engines. Besides India needs that kick to become self reliant in engines such as India got when US stopped India from getting Russian rocket engines.

 

[Bleh]

I lay the blame squarely on HAL. When GE was happy to give license contract to manufacture in house why did you not take it up - and then why did you not buy engines in time and prevent the line from shutting down.

Ab karo mazze.

Agreed... I think the only option now is to looks good Sndcma or RD-93 engine as stopgap

 

[Spitfire IX]

Agreed... I think the only option now is to looks good Sndcma or RD-93 engine as stopgap

RD-93 presumably involves re-design of the aircraft. Since the issue is time, that rules it out as a stopgap.

SAFRAN could surely get an afterburning Kaveri working but it would take time. Then it would need to be brought into production.

It looks inevitable that all Mk1A aircraft produced in the next few years will have to use GE F404-IN20 engines.

I lay the blame squarely on HAL. When GE was happy to give license contract to manufacture in house why did you not take it up - and then why did you not buy engines in time and prevent the line from shutting down.

Ab karo mazze.

Indeed.

 

[125mm_Smoothbore]

India supports Russia financially while Russia attacks its neighbour. The US provides military and financial aid to the victim of Russia's murderous attack. The US government is possibly quite happy to see problems with F404-IN20 production.

india indirectly selling hude amount of artillery shells /mortar and tank munition to ukraine (literally 70000 HE tank shells and all )

sends 100-200 tonnes of medical relief packades every now and then to ukraine

our buying of russian oil is helping control the worldwide inflation both in euro countries and in india

we have scrapped number of deals with russia due to the war too

we are stopping dependance on russian hardware in our forces

 

[Spitfire IX]

Assuming that Mk1A production will be much lower than predicted for the next year or two, what remedial action can IAF take? Can the remaining MiG-21 aircraft be retained in service or returned to service?

 

[Blademaster]

we have scrapped number of deals with russia due to the war too

we are stopping dependance on russian hardware in our forces

We should never scrapped those deals if they were in the national interests of India. And we need to do the same with western weapons. We need to penalize IA and IAF for going for imports when we have a suitable domestic version that does well or nearly based on quality per capita price wise.

 

[Blademaster]

Assuming that Mk1A production will be much lower than predicted for the next year or two, what remedial action can IAF take? Can the remaining MiG-21 aircraft be retained in service or returned to service?

No we need to go full steam ahead with TEJAS and the Kaveri program. That’s the only way to get it done. No looking back.

 

[Binayak95]

We should never scrapped those deals if they were in the national interests of India. And we need to do the same with western weapons. We need to penalize IA and IAF for going for imports when we have a suitable domestic version that does well or nearly based on quality per capita price wise.

The Su57 was in nobody's interest but Russia's. Ditto for the Igla and Ka225.

 

[Blademaster]

The Su57 was in nobody's interest but Russia's. Ditto for the Igla and Ka225.

That’s why I said “if in the interests of India.”

 

[Vishnugupt]

The Su57 was in nobody's interest but Russia's. Ditto for the Igla and Ka225.

But it’s very much possibility India might end up buying SU-57 around 2030.

 

[MirageBlue]

India supports Russia financially while Russia attacks its neighbour. The US provides military and financial aid to the victim of Russia's murderous attack. The US government is possibly quite happy to see problems with F404-IN20 production.

It will be interesting to see how things progress with the F414 deal. GE can offer as little ToT as it likes. I think that India will have to accept whatever is on offer unless it wants to see Tejas Mk2, TEDBF, AMCA Mk1 suffer further multi-year delays.

That will permanently end any trust that was built up in the US in terms of defence weapons being acquired. If there is deliberate sabotage to delay Indian programs, this Govt is not likely to take it lightly and the consequences will be damaging to overall US India relations.

This simplistic "India supports RUssia financially while Russia attacks its neighbour" is nonsensical. Ukraine crossed Russian red lines that were very clearly conveyed to it. Europe is taking all the possible benefit of Indian refining Russian oil that it can. So let's not act like India is taking the devil's side while EU and US are angels. They kept pushing Ukraine into believing that the Russians were not serious and now with Ukraine's economy and infrastructure pounded into oblivion, they're providing weapons that have a shelf life that was anyway going to run out. While Ukrainians are the ones losing thousands of lives. All for what? To be a part of NATO, when the Russians were clear that it was a red line that they would not accept?