Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Blademaster]

• These are not older airframes but newly-MLUed Mig-29 UPGs.
• Mig-29 is not known as widow maker but Mig-21 (all retired except 1 sqn I think).
• Generals are now responsible for maintenance ? I thought "procurement" especially from phoren is the strong point for generals ?

C'mon, free speech has led you folks mind get poisoned by Armed-Forces hating leftist elements on this forum. You guys have made Armed Forces leadership a convinient punching bag for everything wrong with your lives.

When GoI can't plan properly to procure jets in the last 20 years, stonewalling every deal with myriad of problems, then sheepishly procuring 36 Rafales through "emergency purchases" how is IAF supposed to fix this problem through some magic wand ?

Sorry that's deflecting the blame. IAF very well knew that India's coffers could not simply afford the expensive Rafales and should have known or taken the hint to heart and plan for cheaper alternatives. But no, it doubled down on Rafales or nothing, daring GoI in a game of chicken. Well, it turned out that it didn't work and India as a whole loses.

Look at PAF. PAF knew that it could not afford pricey planes so it made the best out of its situation and look where it is now. A viable 4th gen fighter force able to keep IAF on its toes on its own despite overwhelming numerical disadvantage.

IAF should have read the writing on the wall and double down on Tejas and Kaveri engine program and make provisions for temporary fixes while India gets Tejas and Kaveri program to the finish line and India would have its own domestic fighter industry fully capable of serving its needs. But no, IAF was too myopic and arrogant to allow that to happen. Not only that, but I dare say corrupted by greed and hubris.

No, IAF brass takes the blame fully and squarely on this one.

 

[mist_consecutive]

That's why we don't have any accountability.
Generals are not responsible for procurement it's government job .
Generals are not responsible for maintenance, it's mechanic job
Generals are not responsible for day to day operation, it's mid level officer jobs
What are they then for ?

There has to be accountability..you can't keep on losing pilots and frames and be cool about it
.

Again, brushing everything under General's carpet because it has become fashionable to blame them, isn't it ?

Be objective and talk each points out instead of ranting and blaming entire IAF.

• How is IAF responsible if GoI doesn't agree for fighter jet procurement owning to its own political backlashes & other challenges ?
• IAF ordered Tejas Mk1A now, and due to supply chain issues it is not getting delivered. How is that IAF's fault ?
• Do you have any proof the crash is due to shoddy maintenance ? Has any report pointed out substandard maintenance standard by IAF ? How come any General is responsible here ?

Yes, Generals are responsible for day-to-day operations. Yes, there has to be accoutability. And there is accountability. The reports are just not been presented to you and media.

But I can ask for the opposite as well. 3 NDA govts has completely failed in procurement of fighter jets, whether domestic or foreign. Who takes accountability for that ?

 

[Lcafanboy]

View: https://x.com/livefist/status/1853464899403301349

IAF Pilot took MIG 29 for a Spin, quite literally....

 

[mist_consecutive]

Sorry that's deflecting the blame. IAF very well knew that India's coffers could not simply afford the expensive Rafales and should have known or taken the hint to heart and plan for cheaper alternatives. But no, it doubled down on Rafales or nothing, daring GoI in a game of chicken. Well, it turned out that it didn't work and India as a whole loses.

The most, absolutely ridiculous conspiracy theory in Indian defence has to be the bold one.

IAF doesn't have funds ? World's 5th largest economy doesn't have funds to buy fighter jets ? Oh right, they are so expensive, aren't they ?

That is why -

1. Indonesia, world's 16th by GDP has more Rafale than us.
2. UAE, being world's 28th by GDP has more than double Rafale than us.
3. Egypt, being world/s 31st in GDP has more Rafale than us.

Heck, even Kanglus who borrow eggs and electrcity from us are going to buy Rafale.

France seeks Rafale deal with Bangladesh

France aims to finalise Rafale deal with Bangladesh as discussions gain momentum under Caretaker PM Mohammad Yunus. New Delhi: France is hoping that the

sundayguardianlive.com

Look at PAF. PAF knew that it could not afford pricey planes so it made the best out of its situation and look where it is now. A viable 4th gen fighter force able to keep IAF on its toes on its own despite overwhelming numerical disadvantage.

?? PAF is also buying J-10s, Akincis and probably gonna get J-35s as well in future. They aren't concerned about money or shit like that.

IAF should have read the writing on the wall and double down on Tejas and Kaveri engine program and make provisions for temporary fixes while India gets Tejas and Kaveri program to the finish line and India would have its own domestic fighter industry fully capable of serving its needs. But no, IAF was too myopic and arrogant to allow that to happen. Not only that, but I dare say corrupted by greed and hubris.

Yeah, they finally did that, didn't they ? Doubled-down on Tejas.

Kaveri is a challenge, a technical failure and we should not be ashamed of it. Even China struggled for multiple years. Yes, it should be our top (national) priority, and GoI must allocate funds for it. Ask MoD to fund GTRE, IAF is not resonsible for "development" of jet engines.

No, IAF brass takes the blame fully and squarely on this one.

That is your personal opinion, and you are allowed to have one.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Never understood why we stopped at just 36 rafales.
Clearly if anything 72+ should have been ideal numbers would have been the thematic successor of Mirages.

I guess the Rafale corruption scandal was the reason gov backed off from the project.

 

[Suryavanshi]

The most, absolutely ridiculous conspiracy theory in Indian defence has to be the bold one.

IAF doesn't have funds ? World's 5th largest economy doesn't have funds to buy fighter jets ? Oh right, they are so expensive, aren't they ?

That is why -

1. Indonesia, world's 16th by GDP has more Rafale than us.
2. UAE, being world's 28th by GDP has more than double Rafale than us.
3. Egypt, being world/s 31st in GDP has more Rafale than us.

Heck, even Kanglus who borrow eggs and electrcity from us are going to buy Rafale.

France seeks Rafale deal with Bangladesh

France aims to finalise Rafale deal with Bangladesh as discussions gain momentum under Caretaker PM Mohammad Yunus. New Delhi: France is hoping that the

sundayguardianlive.com

?? PAF is also buying J-10s, Akincis and probably gonna get J-35s as well in future. They aren't concerned about money or shit like that.



Yeah, they finally did that, didn't they ? Doubled-down on Tejas.

Kaveri is a challenge, a technical failure and we should not be ashamed of it. Even China struggled for multiple years. Yes, it should be our top (national) priority, and GoI must allocate funds for it. Ask MoD to fund GTRE, IAF is not resonsible for "development" of jet engines.



That is your personal opinion, and you are allowed to have one.

This being said do we have government quote or any official statement that clearly mentions cost of rafales per unit?

 

[Brood Father]

Again, brushing everything under General's carpet because it has become fashionable to blame them, isn't it ?

Be objective and talk each points out instead of ranting and blaming entire IAF.

• How is IAF responsible if GoI doesn't agree for fighter jet procurement owning to its own political backlashes & other challenges ?
• IAF ordered Tejas Mk1A now, and due to supply chain issues it is not getting delivered. How is that IAF's fault ?
• Do you have any proof the crash is due to shoddy maintenance ? Has any report pointed out substandard maintenance standard by IAF ? How come any General is responsible here ?

Yes, Generals are responsible for day-to-day operations. Yes, there has to be accoutability. And there is accountability. The reports are just not been presented to you and media.

But I can ask for the opposite as well. 3 NDA govts has completely failed in procurement of fighter jets, whether domestic or foreign. Who takes accountability for that ?

Yes government is responsible for not procuring and nobody is not blaming them for this fiasco in which our Air force is .. Government and babus are responsible for this mess ..true and I don't blame Air force for that .
But crashing planes every now and then is something for which general should be held accountable for ..

 

[Blademaster]

The most, absolutely ridiculous conspiracy theory in Indian defence has to be the bold one.

IAF doesn't have funds ? World's 5th largest economy doesn't have funds to buy fighter jets ? Oh right, they are so expensive, aren't they ?

That is why -

1. Indonesia, world's 16th by GDP has more Rafale than us.
2. UAE, being world's 28th by GDP has more than double Rafale than us.
3. Egypt, being world/s 31st in GDP has more Rafale than us.

Heck, even Kanglus who borrow eggs and electrcity from us are going to buy Rafale.

France seeks Rafale deal with Bangladesh

France aims to finalise Rafale deal with Bangladesh as discussions gain momentum under Caretaker PM Mohammad Yunus. New Delhi: France is hoping that the

sundayguardianlive.com

?? PAF is also buying J-10s, Akincis and probably gonna get J-35s as well in future. They aren't concerned about money or shit like that.



Yeah, they finally did that, didn't they ? Doubled-down on Tejas.

Kaveri is a challenge, a technical failure and we should not be ashamed of it. Even China struggled for multiple years. Yes, it should be our top (national) priority, and GoI must allocate funds for it. Ask MoD to fund GTRE, IAF is not resonsible for "development" of jet engines.



That is your personal opinion, and you are allowed to have one.

Now you are being silly.

Indonesia, UAE, and Egypt do not have a 1.4 billion population to feed, house, and nurse. India does. They do not have a 1.4 million man force which carries its own expenses. India do. They do not have two enemies and multiple fronts to fight against. India do.

It is a question of managing your limited resources and stretching it out far as you can. The more Rafales you buy, the less resources that other branches get such as submarine arm, surface ships, patrol planes, artillery, tanks, atgms, missiles, ammunition, drones, etc. The list goes on.

IAF was foolish to think that GoI would sacrifice other programs just to satisfy IAF's childish buffoonery demands for Rafales when IAF could have taken the Tejas program to completion and fulfil IAF's pressing needs without draining Indian coffers and at the same time, build a sustainable war industry that would serve India's needs for decades.

Yes, IAF is myopic and shortsighted and is full of buffoons.

 

[Spitfire IX]

Now you are being silly.

Indonesia, UAE, and Egypt do not have a 1.4 billion population to feed, house, and nurse. India does. They do not have a 1.4 million man force which carries its own expenses. India do. They do not have two enemies and multiple fronts to fight against. India do.

It is a question of managing your limited resources and stretching it out far as you can. The more Rafales you buy, the less resources that other branches get such as submarine arm, surface ships, patrol planes, artillery, tanks, atgms, missiles, ammunition, drones, etc. The list goes on.

IAF was foolish to think that GoI would sacrifice other programs just to satisfy IAF's childish buffoonery demands for Rafales when IAF could have taken the Tejas program to completion and fulfil IAF's pressing needs without draining Indian coffers and at the same time, build a sustainable war industry that would serve India's needs for decades.

Yes, IAF is myopic and shortsighted and is full of buffoons.

I am not sure about what you say. Had Rafale (or some other medium weight fighter) not been ordered after the MRCA cancellation, IAF would be in a very weak position right now. Even if two or three squadrons of MkA were delivered by now, IAF would still be in a weak position. Rafale is a far more sophisticated and far more able fighter than Mk1A.

 

[daya]

• Do you have any proof the crash is due to shoddy maintenance ? Has any report pointed out substandard maintenance standard by IAF ? How come any General is responsible here ?

Please get in touch with technical staff engaged in maintenance.

 

[daya]

Again, brushing everything under General's carpet because it has become fashionable to blame them, isn't it ?

Generals are only for getting "Shabashi"?? That can be done by a layman too...

 

[Blademaster]

I am not sure about what you say. Had Rafale (or some other medium weight fighter) not been ordered after the MRCA cancellation, IAF would be in a very weak position right now. Even if two or three squadrons of MkA were delivered by now, IAF would still be in a weak position. Rafale is a far more sophisticated and far more able fighter than Mk1A.

No but it would have certainly force IAF not to waste the decade of 2010s pining for Rafales and force them to get down to brasstacks and work on bringing Tejas and Kaveri engine programs to fruition, throwing all of its might and resources into backing these projects as opposed to giving the unwanted stepson treatment which only served to delay and drag out the completion of these programs.

Besides 36 Rafales is not gonna do shit against PLAAF and its hundreds of S-27 clones, J-20 planes. You need at least 200 of them to actually mean something against the size of PLAAF and I do not see any sign of GoI willing to pony that kind of money to get 200 of these birds. But GoI was always willing to pony up money for hundreds of indigenous fighters as a way of supporting and building a domestic base for aviation industry and employing thousands of people. A job creator that brings in vote banks. IAF should have seen that.